Conflict Resolution

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:06:22
Michael David Davis
Hello, everybody. Today we are talking on episode number six about conflict. Conflict resolution.

00:00:06:23 - 00:00:07:06
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:00:07:08 - 00:00:08:03
Michael David Davis
How to identify.

00:00:08:03 - 00:00:08:20
Nicole Davis
It. Indeed.

00:00:08:23 - 00:00:13:08
Michael David Davis
Okay, great. Let's get into it. Okay. I want to talk about the different types of conflict that exist.

00:00:13:22 - 00:00:14:09
Nicole Davis
Great.

00:00:14:13 - 00:00:16:08
Michael David Davis
And I didn't know there were so many.

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Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:00:17:11 - 00:00:19:23
Michael David Davis
We were researching this. Holy moly.

00:00:20:08 - 00:00:22:23
Nicole Davis
Yeah, We had to narrow the list down. We did take.

00:00:22:23 - 00:00:23:13
Michael David Davis
Five.

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Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:00:24:04 - 00:00:32:21
Michael David Davis
And so these five are not by in any shape way form a list of one conflict is worse than the other.

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Nicole Davis
Yeah, but not ranked or prioritized.

00:00:35:05 - 00:00:41:05
Michael David Davis
They are not ranked or prioritized. Yeah, man. Sometimes the most simple words. And you're there.

00:00:41:07 - 00:00:49:14
Nicole Davis
I got to.

00:00:50:17 - 00:00:52:02
Michael David Davis
Okay. So, Nicole.

00:00:52:14 - 00:00:52:22
Nicole Davis
Yeah?

00:00:52:22 - 00:00:59:13
Michael David Davis
When I think about these conflicts, I have a problem.

00:00:59:13 - 00:01:00:03
Nicole Davis
Just the one.

00:01:00:16 - 00:01:09:01
Michael David Davis
Yeah. Just because, like, it always comes down to. Usually when I think there's a conflict, I want to directed towards an individual.

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Nicole Davis
Like a person?

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Michael David Davis
Yes. That individual and a person pretty close to the same thing. Or No.

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Nicole Davis
Maybe be like an individual lamp. I don't know.

00:01:18:02 - 00:01:36:12
Michael David Davis
Oh, fair enough. Okay. Right. Or Yeah. So because I get I get a little frustrated when someone might ask me to do something, even if I'm like, Hey, give me a list to do or something that they there's some whatever it is that they're asking me to do. There might be something that's an impossible task or something that I feel I'm not equipped to handle at that moment.

00:01:36:12 - 00:01:39:02
Michael David Davis
Yeah, or I don't know that I'm equipped to handle it.

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Nicole Davis
Right.

00:01:39:10 - 00:01:43:10
Michael David Davis
So I get frustrated, Right? But I am mad at them.

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Nicole Davis
The person?

00:01:44:22 - 00:01:46:12
Michael David Davis
Yes. Not the lamp.

00:01:46:21 - 00:01:48:19
Nicole Davis
Not the lamp. Yeah, sometimes lamp.

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Michael David Davis
So is that appropriate?

00:01:51:09 - 00:02:01:06
Nicole Davis
Can I just pause? Yes. Okay, So before we even jump into all the types of conflict, I think we should talk about why we're talking about types of conflict.

00:02:01:07 - 00:02:01:23
Michael David Davis
Okay, Please do.

00:02:02:00 - 00:02:22:04
Nicole Davis
Right. Because I think some people just think maybe we even thought before we started digging into this conflict is conflict. Like, let's just figure out how to resolve it or how to kind of barrel through it, how to move on, whatever. But what we found is that based off of these different types of conflict, obviously you can kind of take different methods in order to move through it or resolve it.

00:02:22:12 - 00:02:43:07
Nicole Davis
And so we're kind of taking the point of view of, you know, maybe when you go see a physician, they want to understand your symptoms so you can make a diagnosis and then they know the right course of treatment. And so that's kind of how we're looking at conflict as well as if you can identify the type of conflict, if you can name it, then it may be easier for you to kind of figure out what to do next.

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Nicole Davis
So that's why we're kind of breaking things down into categories. Yeah, and not just saying like conflict is conflict.

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Michael David Davis
Yeah, that makes perfect sense because I think when conflict me can be a scary word because.

00:02:53:13 - 00:02:54:13
Nicole Davis
Yeah, I think to lots of.

00:02:54:13 - 00:03:03:07
Michael David Davis
People, right. Well, even when we've had conversations in our relationship, you're like, All right, there's a conflict. And immediately my guards are up on me. Oh, no. What did I do?

00:03:03:09 - 00:03:03:17
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:03:03:20 - 00:03:26:00
Michael David Davis
And it's not anything like that at all. Yeah. All right, So, okay, back onto the task conflict. So someone's asking me something to do, and I am looking at what it is that they're suggesting or talking about, or it's feedback that I have inquired about. And I'm not happy with the feedback.

00:03:29:00 - 00:03:46:00
Michael David Davis
I guess how do I deal with that? Or more than that? How do I deal with that? Yeah, I guess what how do I deal with that? Because I'm going to I typically know me. I misdirecting my first knee jerk reaction is to again be upset with the person. Yeah. Provided that even if I ask for them to provide that.

00:03:46:01 - 00:03:46:09
Michael David Davis
Right.

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Nicole Davis
Yeah. So you know, I think with with task conflict sometimes it can be you know we've talked about that I hate this list right. Like what's the list of things that are really energizing for you or things that you just don't enjoy or are really draining for you. So to me, task conflicts can a lot of times come up in those types of situations with the I hate this list.

00:04:08:11 - 00:04:29:02
Nicole Davis
So it can be you've been asked to do something that you think is below your rank or below your level of expertise, or you think it's something that is actually above your rank, like your boss is asking you to do something that you think is actually their responsibility to do, right? Or as you said, you're just not really sure how to do this thing.

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Nicole Davis
So, you know, I think if you can separate the emotion from the conflict, that's where you can start to kind of tease out what is actually at the root of this. Right.

00:04:42:08 - 00:04:45:01
Michael David Davis
You really want me to remove a most you know.

00:04:46:02 - 00:04:58:19
Nicole Davis
Wow. I know. Easier said than done, right? Yeah, but I think, you know, so one thing that I use a lot and I and people laugh at me at this point because I talk about it so much is really See are you familiar with crazy?

00:04:58:23 - 00:05:02:19
Michael David Davis
I don't believe I am. But I feel like when you start talking about it, I'm going to know.

00:05:03:11 - 00:05:21:03
Nicole Davis
Okay, so a lot of times when it comes to a task conflict, I find that creating a racy is a really good solution, or at least a way to start a conversation to figure out, okay, who's responsible, accountable, who needs to be consulted, and who needs to be informed for each of these tasks that are.

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Michael David Davis
A c.

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Nicole Davis
I. Yeah. Okay. I see. Are we loving.

00:05:24:03 - 00:05:25:03
Michael David Davis
It? I think so.

00:05:25:04 - 00:05:25:16
Nicole Davis
Okay, cool.

00:05:25:16 - 00:05:25:22
Michael David Davis
Yeah.

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Nicole Davis
So, you know, it's really kind of figuring out who's responsible for this. So that's usually like, who's actually doing the work, right? I are in a can sometimes be in conflict with one another is who the responsible and accountable accountable typically ends up being the person who's kind of like making that decision. Sometimes the person who's responsible and accountable, the same person.

00:05:48:12 - 00:06:12:21
Nicole Davis
Right. But then when you move on to that, who's consulted? This is like before you make a decision or before you move forward, who needs to kind of be in the room and then informed is like, go ahead and make the decision, but just make sure that you tell this person once you've done it. But sometimes going through a crazy the beginning of a project or honestly, even in a novel project when you're freaking out, can be really helpful to just kind of get some clarity about, you know, roles and responsibilities well.

00:06:12:22 - 00:06:47:16
Michael David Davis
And I think that's a great it really is a great beginning, ground beginning framework for any conversation or any project that you might be working on. Right. Because then you're setting yourself up for success as opposed to, you know, as we all know, setting ourselves up for failure. And that definitely is a way to avoid that conflict, because I know if I don't do something like that, trying to identify the players or the stakeholders or my role and position in that, then I am making a lot of those assumptions and we all that's what that does.

00:06:47:16 - 00:07:02:20
Michael David Davis
And then when those assumptions of minor aren't communicated and not met, then there are more parties besides me that are probably just as, yeah, alienated, which then makes them really ticked off.

00:07:02:20 - 00:07:26:10
Nicole Davis
Yeah, that's right. Well, I think the big part of that is asking questions. And, you know, let's be clear. Not everyone has the emotional safety within their their role to poke and ask questions. Right. So like, we should just kind of cover that right now that I understand that that is not a role or a position that everyone is in.

00:07:27:04 - 00:07:40:23
Nicole Davis
But if you can find someone within your organization who you think does kind of provide that emotional safety for you, a mentor or just someone that you can kind of confide in to be able to bounce some of these things off like.

00:07:40:23 - 00:07:44:07
Michael David Davis
A partner, like, oh my goodness, Like.

00:07:44:15 - 00:08:04:13
Nicole Davis
You know, just to be able to kind of do a gut check there of, hey, here's what happened. Here's, you know, an assignment that I received. This feels off to me or it feels not at the right level or feels way too much for my role or whatever, you know, just kind of get that gut check and then you can again, figure out how to move forward.

00:08:04:14 - 00:08:30:07
Michael David Davis
Well, and as a side note, I think it really does touch if you don't have that ability and work, this is not a plug about having an actual like my thought partner with us, but it is more of a plug. Find a mentor. And if you don't have that ability within your organization, you should definitely find something outside of your organization because they will give you typically that unbiased feedback that is that unemotional approach because they're not tied close to it.

00:08:30:07 - 00:08:46:08
Michael David Davis
They don't have to deal with the inner personal politics of that particular organization or families. So then that way they can really just give you a framework to move forward. That's right. Well, then that kind of leads into the relationship.

00:08:46:23 - 00:08:47:17
Nicole Davis
Right? Yeah.

00:08:47:17 - 00:08:59:14
Michael David Davis
So that's relationship. Conflict is huge. And I think you talking about that emotional safety net, that sounds like if you don't have it, you're probably having a relationship conflict.

00:08:59:15 - 00:08:59:23
Nicole Davis
Right.

00:09:00:11 - 00:09:24:14
Michael David Davis
And that relationship conflict can be with peers around you. It can be with your the hierarchy structure, whether you are telling people or asking people to do something or you're getting that same information back. How my gosh. And also how in the world if I I've I've felt like, all right, I'm not upset with you or the person, I'm just dealing with these tasks.

00:09:24:14 - 00:09:31:01
Michael David Davis
But this time I am upset with you. I'm not really for those.

00:09:31:01 - 00:09:32:03
Nicole Davis
Not like me, me.

00:09:32:03 - 00:09:34:14
Michael David Davis
Not you. The hypothetical.

00:09:34:14 - 00:09:35:00
Nicole Davis
Version.

00:09:35:04 - 00:09:52:07
Michael David Davis
Yeah. That lives in my brain. Okay. Yeah. How do I deal with that relationship? Conflict. Right? Like, so if I don't have that emotional safety net and I don't have that external mentor or guidance or what what, what do I do next? Like, what can I do? Is there an option for me?

00:09:52:15 - 00:10:00:17
Nicole Davis
Yeah, well, I guess it's first of all, like, how do you know that that's actually what it is. Okay. Right. So what are some of those characteristics of a relationship conflict?

00:10:01:13 - 00:10:04:14
Michael David Davis
I don't know. That's right. Because if.

00:10:04:14 - 00:10:06:01
Nicole Davis
I'm stumped.

00:10:06:01 - 00:10:39:17
Michael David Davis
I'm stumped because it's got it's taken me this long in life to even figure out the there are ways to identify those relationship conflicts. So we're going to get to that in the next segment. Yeah. Okay. Let's do it. I two and we are back Where to take a break. We had our own little conflict calm was was a bug in the room and we needed to take care of it and part of the what is it not a personal conflict.

00:10:39:17 - 00:10:40:00
Michael David Davis
It is.

00:10:40:00 - 00:10:40:20
Nicole Davis
A relationship.

00:10:40:20 - 00:10:55:21
Michael David Davis
Correlation, some kind of relation conflict. It was how to deal with that while in the middle of recording. Let me tell you, thanks to the power of audio and video, yet you didn't even realize it, but we had to go through it.

00:10:55:23 - 00:11:29:21
Nicole Davis
Well, it's a this is actually a really good example of relationship conflict, right? Because how you identify, how you identify a relationship conflict is that two people can kind of experience the same exact thing, but come away with totally different responses or reactions or interpretations or have two totally different ways that they might want to tackle it. So I wanted to stop everything and take care of the insect.

00:11:30:05 - 00:11:30:10
Michael David Davis
Yeah.

00:11:31:11 - 00:11:32:05
Nicole Davis
Michael is like.

00:11:32:11 - 00:11:46:07
Michael David Davis
Push on through, right? Look, here's it. And this is a good, really insight for you to go watch the videos on YouTube because I'm sure you can see Nicole's face change during production.

00:11:46:07 - 00:11:47:09
Nicole Davis
It I saw.

00:11:47:09 - 00:12:03:20
Michael David Davis
It and I'm like, what's going on? And I can feel because I'm in to my partner, I can feel the tension rising. And I was like, What is going on? And so we stopped. And then I realize what was going on and I'm going, You can't let distractions stop you.

00:12:04:09 - 00:12:06:19
Nicole Davis
Wow. That is the actual conversation that we just had.

00:12:06:19 - 00:12:07:11
Michael David Davis
That was really.

00:12:07:11 - 00:12:14:04
Nicole Davis
It. I know. Yeah. So, so luckily we do have a strong enough relationship so that we made it.

00:12:14:04 - 00:12:15:20
Michael David Davis
Maya and I ended up so.

00:12:17:17 - 00:12:18:00
Nicole Davis
All.

00:12:18:06 - 00:12:20:00
Michael David Davis
Previous relationships I would have been.

00:12:20:14 - 00:12:20:20
Nicole Davis
Pretty.

00:12:21:00 - 00:12:22:18
Michael David Davis
Sure. Okay.

00:12:23:13 - 00:12:27:06
Nicole Davis
Anyway, so if we translate this to work. Yeah.

00:12:27:06 - 00:12:27:11
Michael David Davis
Yeah.

00:12:27:18 - 00:12:49:12
Nicole Davis
You know, I think it's when, when you do have those situations with someone that you work with and it just seems like, gosh, we are never on the same page or emotionally we're not really feeling the same way about things or yeah, there's, we have totally different reactions or responses or next steps based off of information that we're taking in.

00:12:50:03 - 00:12:55:03
Nicole Davis
And so what the heck do you do with that? Because I think sometimes that feels really insurmountable.

00:12:55:06 - 00:13:20:14
Michael David Davis
Yeah, it really does Well, and I think too, like if you are in tune with the person, right, or you have the ability, again, a lot of this is to me and this is going to be repeated over and over with so many things that we discuss on the show is that it is about asking the questions. And so instead of making the decision for somebody else, asking the feedback and like, what is it?

00:13:20:14 - 00:13:42:02
Michael David Davis
What is so important to you that that disruption occurred? Right. And I think if you're able to get those answered that you're identifying again. So a lot of this is almost like a repetitive process. It's asking the question so that you can identify what it is, so that you know what you're really working to resolve, Right?

00:13:42:07 - 00:14:01:23
Nicole Davis
Yeah, Well, it's it's you know, we talked about this, I think maybe last time or a few episodes ago about being genuinely curious. And when you're asking questions of someone not just asking questions because you're going through the motions, but really being curious and trying to unpack what is it about this that caused you to have this reaction or to feel this way?

00:14:02:06 - 00:14:30:11
Nicole Davis
When I witness this in a totally different way, right. And that can really help to build relationships, too. So if you're having this relationship conflict, it can help you kind of unpack what that other person is feeling and maybe unpack for them what you're feeling, right, so that you can at least better understand each other. It doesn't mean you're going to have the same response or a muted response moving forward, but at least you have a better understanding of why they may do some of the things that they do or why they they react in certain ways.

00:14:30:11 - 00:14:53:11
Michael David Davis
Yeah, And I think to going back to what you said earlier and the previously interrupt did say that emotional where you mentioned that you may not have that emotional safety in your role. I think if if you don't feel comfortable asking those questions, you might start that conversation by actually speaking again from the I, you know, scenario statements.

00:14:53:14 - 00:15:24:21
Michael David Davis
I feel like at this moment we are not aligned in our vision or I feel at this moment that something's off. And I feel like just saying that you can really start a conversation that when really what you're doing is you are showing the other person that you're having this conversation with, that you're actually open to having. You kind of you're kind of being the first to step forward to show that you're going to let your guard down so that you can have a conversation.

00:15:24:21 - 00:15:52:13
Michael David Davis
So you know that transparency and that vulnerability might just get you another percent into that person's trust zone so that you can have a more worthwhile conversation. You realize, Hey, what do we need to do here as a team moving forward right? Or what can I do to service and help you so that we are able to get past this conflict or to get past this problem?

00:15:52:13 - 00:15:53:09
Michael David Davis
Does that seem.

00:15:53:09 - 00:16:04:19
Nicole Davis
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. And so I think that also can kind of play into the next type of conflict that we want to talk about, which is status conflicts.

00:16:04:19 - 00:16:06:13
Michael David Davis
Yeah, big time.

00:16:06:14 - 00:16:07:18
Nicole Davis
Big time, big time.

00:16:07:18 - 00:16:18:07
Michael David Davis
That is conflict. It's all about the power dynamics in that hierarchy. Right. And that's really where that comes to. And that will really come after that true segment next.

00:16:18:16 - 00:16:20:19
Nicole Davis
Oh, the break. The real break. The real.

00:16:20:19 - 00:16:23:20
Michael David Davis
Break. Let's be live.

00:16:23:22 - 00:16:24:15
Nicole Davis
For your reporting.

00:16:25:07 - 00:16:26:19
Michael David Davis
And reporting.

00:16:27:23 - 00:16:33:12
Nicole Davis
Great. Both of us. Our best for our best selves at this moment.

00:16:33:12 - 00:17:14:13
Michael David Davis
I'm just having fun. I welcome back. We are always having fun in between our breaks. We hope you're having fun in your little silence of 10 seconds there that you get to do a little mid intro. I we're back so we're talking about conflict resolution the things to identify them we've already tackled talking about the task conflicts. We've talked about relationship conflicts and then we are going to tackle into the next three which are really status conflict, the value conflict and then the kind of cross cultural inter cultural conflicts that can exist in our environment.

00:17:14:13 - 00:17:33:16
Michael David Davis
So when we talk about task conflict, oh my gosh, we did talk about task conflict. I know it's status conflict because it's always when someone from a different status than me is asking me to do something. It just it gets I'm like, no, I want to be frustrated with them. So what we've talked about identified to the task.

00:17:33:16 - 00:17:36:15
Michael David Davis
So yeah, but now let's get into that status conflict.

00:17:36:15 - 00:17:37:00
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:17:37:06 - 00:17:38:02
Michael David Davis
Why am I?

00:17:38:13 - 00:17:41:20
Nicole Davis
I don't know. I'm like, Let's unpack that for you. What's up?

00:17:41:20 - 00:17:49:15
Michael David Davis
What is it that the hypothetical and real version of me mistreated when someone a status.

00:17:50:00 - 00:17:53:12
Nicole Davis
Say, like, talk about all the way through. I'm actually interested in.

00:17:53:12 - 00:18:25:18
Michael David Davis
This so status conflict to me is usually again so we mentioned it was about a power dynamic. And that power dynamic is typically, I think when the conflict arises from the person that is receiving that feels on the lower end or that feels that the power dynamic is not in my favor, I can be instantly abrasive if I'm asked to do something or told to do something.

00:18:25:21 - 00:18:26:11
Nicole Davis
By.

00:18:26:22 - 00:18:30:01
Michael David Davis
Somebody of a greater power dynamic to me.

00:18:30:15 - 00:18:31:20
Nicole Davis
Someone a higher rank.

00:18:31:20 - 00:18:36:02
Michael David Davis
Someone in a higher rank, someone that has the ability to have.

00:18:36:02 - 00:18:38:22
Nicole Davis
More influence.

00:18:38:22 - 00:18:39:18
Michael David Davis
Or persuade.

00:18:39:18 - 00:18:40:13
Nicole Davis
My mind.

00:18:40:15 - 00:18:41:02
Michael David Davis
Why?

00:18:41:12 - 00:19:10:18
Nicole Davis
Because I mean, because my whole life existence is all about like being respectful to you as a kid. Yeah. You got your way with this being the difference. The difference between is the huge difference between us being respectful to my elders. Right? When I was a kid, you know, I was definitely raised and not like children are to be seen and not heard type type scenario.

00:19:10:18 - 00:19:11:03
Nicole Davis
Right.

00:19:11:09 - 00:19:15:05
Michael David Davis
And I was told quite certain everything right now.

00:19:15:18 - 00:19:17:01
Nicole Davis
Not my style. Right.

00:19:17:14 - 00:19:19:23
Michael David Davis
And I didn't question why.

00:19:20:01 - 00:19:51:21
Nicole Davis
Right. And so, you know, I also am an independent worker. Right. But if someone from a higher rank asks me to do something, I'm going to do it and I'm not going to do it with a chip on my shoulder. Yeah, unless it's super unreasonable, because that's just kind of how I'm wired. So it's interesting, you know, and I would almost challenge you to say, I know you're shock.

00:19:51:21 - 00:20:00:08
Nicole Davis
I mean, challenge you on something, but is it really this status or is there something else attached to that?

00:20:00:17 - 00:20:36:13
Michael David Davis
Well, that's going to be for another episode, because as we're talking about that, what I am thinking about this is, is I think I think sometimes it's why the power dynamic I struggle with. Right. And in that status conflict is sometimes it's not about like I think I'm smarter than the person, but I do. There are times when I might have different skill sets that are there more, there's more experience behind it.

00:20:36:14 - 00:21:01:11
Nicole Davis
Well, and I would say I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would say that you're a generalist, right? Like you know a lot about a lot of things, whereas some people are really specialists and you focus on on one specific thing. And so I think that may be part of your conflict too, is that people don't always understand the breadth of your skill set and experience.

00:21:01:11 - 00:21:05:17
Nicole Davis
And so you maybe sometimes get a little different sense.

00:21:05:17 - 00:21:07:06
Michael David Davis
Than the brute, the mind. Sure.

00:21:07:06 - 00:21:23:21
Nicole Davis
Right. And in that that is a whole other episode. But, you know, you may kind of get a little defensive when people ask you to do things or assign you things because maybe you feel like they don't recognize the skills that you have or the experience you that I don't know.

00:21:24:01 - 00:21:28:09
Michael David Davis
So all future clients out there do know that I know what I'm doing.

00:21:29:17 - 00:21:30:17
Nicole Davis
Yeah, just. Just now.

00:21:30:17 - 00:21:33:03
Michael David Davis
I just. I got it. Yeah. Okay. So then.

00:21:33:03 - 00:21:33:09
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:21:34:04 - 00:21:35:00
Michael David Davis
Yeah. Okay.

00:21:35:10 - 00:21:40:01
Nicole Davis
So that's conflict. Yeah. I was going to say, I have I have a couple examples on this.

00:21:40:01 - 00:21:47:00
Michael David Davis
Do I just want to spend a whole bunch of time on the status conflict because we do want to get into the value aspect of the approach to that. And I.

00:21:47:00 - 00:21:50:04
Nicole Davis
Mean, obviously it's a touchy subject for you see or dive too deep.

00:21:50:06 - 00:21:55:11
Michael David Davis
Right? Yeah, I let's not do my funeral. Let's, let's let other people learn.

00:21:55:11 - 00:22:06:17
Nicole Davis
So here's, here's what I will say about that as conflict. Is that so I will disagree a little bit with part of what you said, that it's like always the lower ranked person's problem.

00:22:07:05 - 00:22:09:09
Michael David Davis
No, no, for sure. Right. Okay. I don't mean that at all.

00:22:09:09 - 00:22:41:08
Nicole Davis
So I think I think what we should also just kind of have as a blanket statement is that the conflict exists, right? Yeah, it is not one person's problem. One person is not owning that conflict. Like if I have a problem with you, we have a conflict, all right? It's not my conflict and my problem. Right? So I think that that's important to understand what the status conflict especially is, that when there is that conflict there, it is the responsibility of all parties involved to try to solve it.

00:22:41:08 - 00:23:08:23
Nicole Davis
Yeah. And so I think one thing so, you know, quick anecdote, when I was 22, I got promoted into a management role. I was managing people who were 30 years plus older than me and let me tell you, you know, you want to talk about chips on shoulders. People were not pleased to have me as their boss. And I had a lot of people call me boss.

00:23:08:23 - 00:23:33:20
Nicole Davis
And it was it was obviously meant tongue in cheek. But yeah, it kind of it did. Right. So I had one one, one person who was working for me who was running her mouth to everyone who would listen, giving me attitude in front of clients and really bothered me. And so, you know, I, I asked her to come in early one day and just sit down and talk.

00:23:33:20 - 00:23:47:14
Nicole Davis
And I said, Hey, I noticed. And I just very matter of factly laid it out like I notice even saying some kind of unkind things about me. I've noticed that you've made some snide comments about me in front of clients. Can you talk to me about where I've gone wrong?

00:23:47:15 - 00:23:48:00
Michael David Davis
Hmm?

00:23:48:10 - 00:24:17:18
Nicole Davis
I like what? What did I do? And it was as simple as I had shifted some of her responsibilities in a way that she didn't like. And she she didn't feel confident in the things that I had asked her to start doing. And so she was ticked about it. But she didn't come to me and say, Nicole, I don't like the way that you've shifted my responsibilities, but getting that out in the open, I was able to kind of move things around, get her back into her comfort zone.

00:24:18:02 - 00:24:35:04
Nicole Davis
We were fine from from there on out, right? Yeah. And it was a clear status conflict that she felt like she needed to, you know, kind of like puffer chest and and show how great she was or whatever. Right. But just being able to talk about it really squashed it.

00:24:35:10 - 00:24:36:04
Michael David Davis
Okay. So it's not.

00:24:36:04 - 00:24:36:22
Nicole Davis
Always that easy.

00:24:37:03 - 00:25:07:08
Michael David Davis
Well, no. Into but to summarize that part of it, too, is really what you mentioned. Like it's when you have those conflicts. Yes. It's not just a single party conflict, it's a multi-party conflict, but it does take somebody to actually have to speak up. And it is that conflict, right. So in order to get through a status conflict, there will be and hopefully it is now you, right you that's listening or watching because you will have that ability to say, hey, I now know what this is, to step forward and ask.

00:25:07:19 - 00:25:11:09
Michael David Davis
Yeah, you can even ask, Hey, is there a conflict here? Yeah, that really is it.

00:25:11:10 - 00:25:12:04
Nicole Davis
Yeah, right.

00:25:12:16 - 00:25:20:11
Michael David Davis
And, and lo and behold, it may not work your direction, but at least you're taking the responsibility and accountability behind that.

00:25:20:11 - 00:25:45:08
Nicole Davis
Right? Well, and, you know, I think the thing is, is that you can keep whatever story you have in your head going for as long as you will allow yourself to do that. But you won't actually know the truth until you have that conversation. And, you know, I think the story I was telling myself in that situation was, oh, she's irritated because, you know, she's so much older than me and I'm in a higher rank.

00:25:45:21 - 00:26:01:12
Nicole Davis
And that really wasn't the essence of what it was about. It was that we had not built enough trust for her to come to me and say, I don't like the work that I'm doing now, but being able to have that conversation, I then didn't have that story in my head anymore either.

00:26:01:19 - 00:26:36:04
Michael David Davis
Okay, so then let's get into the values and stuff. So like one of the things that you talked about and maybe this is connected and maybe it's not so new, talked about the values. Aracely, when you talked about the conflict of you are 22 and you now took on this responsibility in having to direct people that were older than you did, Is is there an approach to this where that person who is older than you in that role, there is some sort of value conflict in the fact that they might have felt that they had more experience that they had.

00:26:37:05 - 00:27:01:05
Nicole Davis
And they did. Yeah, right. And so to me, there is no question they are, you know, and I had plenty to learn from her in different ways. We just had different skill sets. Right. Right. And and that's why I was placed in the position I was placed in is because I had some of those different leadership qualities and ability to operationalize and manage things.

00:27:01:05 - 00:27:08:23
Nicole Davis
So, you know, I think it's also addressing that, that we may be in different roles, but there are different reasons for that, getting back to values.

00:27:08:23 - 00:27:24:00
Michael David Davis
So no, that's okay, because then okay, so when I think about values, I'm thinking then about like life experiences, right? Like what things in my life do I value that make me feel like I have some sort of assumptive authority or some sort of assumptive.

00:27:24:08 - 00:27:25:01
Nicole Davis
Oh, in.

00:27:25:01 - 00:27:34:03
Michael David Davis
Your role in life, Right. So in that way, I mean, like what? Other times I think about values, right? It can be based on my religious beliefs. It can be based upon.

00:27:34:05 - 00:27:34:22
Nicole Davis
Ethics.

00:27:34:22 - 00:27:57:15
Michael David Davis
Your ethics, or even like you said, that, you know, Nicole doesn't believe in that hierarchy structure. And, you know, and and to this day, you still are very much that part of least resistance. We'll know that path of least resistance, least conflict. And like you really work with the people in you really try to align with all people.

00:27:57:16 - 00:28:22:04
Michael David Davis
Yeah. To get that down. Right. That's a strong value of you. Yeah, we're I'm the person I really do want to like. I feel like I do. It makes me think if you haven't seen The Fifth Element, Gary Oldman's character in there and he has this great monologue about Without Chaos or cannot be rebuilding and restructuring like. GROSS and you know, look right like, like a drill corps sergeant or something like that.

00:28:22:04 - 00:28:43:19
Michael David Davis
And so I think that I want to go in and find as much conflict out there because it's easier for me and where I come from, the values that I guess have been instilled in my life that it's easier to put the pieces together when there are things that are broken as opposed to not finding if something is already well oiled.

00:28:43:19 - 00:28:45:16
Michael David Davis
I challenged with that, right?

00:28:46:08 - 00:28:53:05
Nicole Davis
Yeah. I'm trying to think like what are animal equivalents? Like I feel like like Tasmanian.

00:28:53:05 - 00:28:56:01
Michael David Davis
Devil First I am the Tasmanian.

00:28:56:01 - 00:29:16:22
Nicole Davis
Tiger. Well, I was gardening today, so I'm thinking about like all the little earthworms that I found. I was digging things up and I feel like I'm kind of an earthworm, like I will like find a little nook and like I'll kind of, you know, sneak a bite way in and we'll suddenly make some changes and move things the direction that I want them to go.

00:29:17:05 - 00:29:28:00
Nicole Davis
Whereas maybe you're more like a groundhog or a mole for, right? Yeah. Yeah. Or it's just like you see this, like, mound, right? And you're just like.

00:29:28:10 - 00:29:29:00
Michael David Davis
Oh, yeah.

00:29:29:00 - 00:29:33:20
Nicole Davis
Kind of like, let's dig it all up and start over and yeah, that's just kind of not, not my.

00:29:33:20 - 00:30:05:04
Michael David Davis
Style. Okay, so then, but back to Yes, Well, no, because like, okay, so yeah, like that's like I one of the conflict things that I try to avoid in that is I have to try to not impose my value system on other people. Right. Like we talk about equity a lot in our conversations with people and clients and that is I have to remind myself again about meeting them at their need, not where I assume that they need me and to help their business.

00:30:05:14 - 00:30:36:03
Michael David Davis
And I think that is one of the values at deep core, if we think about if you can remind yourself that you need to meet people where they are at, then that's going to help reduce a lot of these conflicts, but especially in the value side, because whether let's say you're a nonreligious person, someone who has very deep religious values and there's a conflict around that, not because you had some sort of religious conversation, but because they ethically and morally feel like something that they're being asked to do.

00:30:36:03 - 00:30:58:16
Michael David Davis
Or maybe you're on the receiving end of that, that that is what they truly believe is important to them. If you meet them and try to understand that, again, we go back to that question asking you'll have a better understanding so that you know that they're not just they're not necessarily maybe an imposing that value of their own onto you.

00:30:58:20 - 00:30:59:05
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:30:59:12 - 00:31:07:08
Michael David Davis
They're just being guided by something differently so you can help alleviate that conflict by, again, meeting them where they are.

00:31:07:09 - 00:31:32:16
Nicole Davis
Yeah. Okay. So but what I guess if you don't understand, like, how do you identify that that's a conflict. Yeah, I guess. Like how do you make a distinction between a value conflict versus a relationship conflict, right? Because I feel like they can look very similar, but I think the route of those things is pretty different. So how do you tease those out?

00:31:33:07 - 00:32:04:20
Michael David Davis
Well, I mean, I guess this will kind of go into the next thing, right? Like cross-cultural. I think a lot of the again, where these value conflict, the cross-cultural conflict can be very similar in the sense that maybe it is something culturally due to their upbringing, due to their heritage, due to the person's background, that they have a very defined belief system, they have a very defined way of doing business.

00:32:04:20 - 00:32:43:02
Michael David Davis
Again, if you're doing business with other cultures and different countries, there's a very specific approach to each type of interaction that you have. There's there's interactions between the different sexes, there's interactions between specific hierarchies and business. There are you know, there are very specific interactions, which again, yes, they are relationship based, but I think that when you are trying to identify it specifically, whether it's value, whether it's relationship or whether it's cross cultural is again, I think you have to understand whom it is that you actually had the conflict with.

00:32:43:22 - 00:33:01:06
Nicole Davis
Yeah. Yes. And I think there are maybe two other pieces of it. I think one is sitting with that conflict and thinking about, I don't know, like how deep that goes, which sounds kind of silly.

00:33:01:12 - 00:33:07:08
Michael David Davis
Well, it's kind of like going back to the last episode, which is like it's like, read it before reacting. It's like, you.

00:33:07:13 - 00:33:07:15
Nicole Davis
Know.

00:33:07:16 - 00:33:10:03
Michael David Davis
Your emotions before you react.

00:33:10:03 - 00:33:39:05
Nicole Davis
Really well. But it's like, I feel icky about this, right? Yeah. And so what is the source of the EQ and can you identify that? And how deep rooted is that? You know, I think when you have relationship conflicts, it can be very surface level of like, gosh, they they took that in a totally different direction or they always respond to things in a very different way than I would or their decision making process is really different from mine.

00:33:39:17 - 00:33:56:01
Nicole Davis
But to me, a value conflict or a cross-cultural conflict is far more deep rooted and maybe more, you know, I don't mean to be dramatic, but like maybe more distressing in some ways and and creates more inner conflict as well.

00:33:56:01 - 00:33:58:04
Michael David Davis
Or as some people like to say triggering.

00:33:58:14 - 00:34:01:22
Nicole Davis
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we should probably be like, oh.

00:34:01:22 - 00:34:02:17
Michael David Davis
Course, yes.

00:34:02:21 - 00:34:26:17
Nicole Davis
To me, like triggering is a trigger word, but you know, so I think it is kind of sitting with it a little bit and and unpacking what it is that's bothering you or understanding how deeply that is bothering the other person or impacting the other person. Or again, the why like, why is this a thing? So I have a couple.

00:34:26:17 - 00:34:27:10
Nicole Davis
I have a couple.

00:34:27:18 - 00:34:32:21
Michael David Davis
Yeah. I mean I always have I think we have a few minutes left to like think, you know, you've got a time for an anecdote and.

00:34:33:00 - 00:34:33:16
Nicole Davis
I'm like, wrap.

00:34:33:16 - 00:34:34:01
Michael David Davis
This up.

00:34:34:01 - 00:34:59:08
Nicole Davis
So yeah. So I think, you know, one thing is I actually had this conversation this week with a colleague where I felt really strongly about a path forward with the work that we were doing at the end of the day, it was not my project, right? I am I am helping a client move through this particular project. And part of what I said was I am bringing my perspective and my personal values to this.

00:34:59:18 - 00:35:18:19
Nicole Davis
Here's how I think you should set this up. At the end of the day, you know, and here's the reason why. But at the end of the day, this is your project and I will honor whatever it is that you want to do moving forward here. And it wasn't an ethical thing. It was just like, I believe that this is a more impactful, valuable way to do that.

00:35:19:02 - 00:35:39:15
Nicole Davis
And so you think that's one path. And this is just like being able to identify like these are my personal values, and my personal values are influencing the way that I'm working through this right now. So to me, that's one thing. I think the other thing is, as you said, 23 times like asking questions, you know, I had a back in a sales role.

00:35:40:00 - 00:35:50:12
Nicole Davis
I had certain clients who would really try to negotiate prices with me. And I was like, the prices on the paper, dude.

00:35:50:21 - 00:35:52:16
Michael David Davis
Like or like.

00:35:52:16 - 00:35:54:05
Nicole Davis
We're not doing that here.

00:35:55:02 - 00:35:58:02
Michael David Davis
So going to McDonald's. Hey, can I get my Big Mac for $0.49?

00:35:58:02 - 00:36:07:21
Nicole Davis
Exactly. And that would always Cheezburger. Yep. So funny because that would always be the comparison that I would make. It's like you don't go to McDonald's and say, like, you know, I do.

00:36:07:21 - 00:36:09:17
Michael David Davis
I don't go to McDonald's, but I will negotiate.

00:36:09:17 - 00:36:25:15
Nicole Davis
Yeah, so but, you know, the more I understood that, the more I understood that that was a cultural norm. Right? That, you know, any sort of sales interaction or transaction is an opportunity for negotiation.

00:36:25:16 - 00:36:26:05
Michael David Davis
Oh, yeah.

00:36:26:07 - 00:36:48:13
Nicole Davis
Right. And so that was something that I had to understand and not immediately go to frustration or, you know, giving attitude of like, what are you talking about? We don't do that, you know, but to just just say, I understand that you would really like to find a lower price or I understand that you would like to negotiate this.

00:36:48:18 - 00:36:51:15
Nicole Davis
Unfortunately, that's not something that we accommodate.

00:36:51:15 - 00:37:08:07
Michael David Davis
You reminded me of a story to like, and I know I told you to wrap it up, but again, this is you remind me the story I the same similar thing that a client in the past an agreed upon contract for a certain amount of work that was to be done each day and it was signed. It was done.

00:37:08:14 - 00:37:31:13
Michael David Davis
But that client at the end of every single day took me to the side and said, Michael, so can we talk about this? Is this the best price that you're going to give me? And I would say Mr. X, where you have a signed contract right there. This is this is it. We already agreed upon. We need to o shaded this contract.

00:37:32:00 - 00:37:51:18
Michael David Davis
But culturally that was fair. And they told me, they said, look, this is just the way we do business. Back where I'm from, if I don't do this, he's like, it's it feels like I'm going against my own grain. And but the first I will tell you, the first two days, I was like, is this person that young, dumb, like, what's wrong with them?

00:37:51:18 - 00:38:05:22
Michael David Davis
And then once they took that, they can see that I was clearly frustrated and then they took the time to explain it to me. And it made perfect sense because I was like, Oh, okay. I was like, Man, you just beat me up every day. Like, What is going on? Yeah, this is just how we do business back home.

00:38:05:22 - 00:38:09:07
Michael David Davis
And I was like, All right, all right. So yeah, it is interesting that I think about that now.

00:38:09:07 - 00:38:12:16
Nicole Davis
Yeah, well, and I think maybe to tie it all together.

00:38:13:08 - 00:38:14:04
Michael David Davis
With a pretty.

00:38:14:17 - 00:38:28:08
Nicole Davis
With a bow is, you know, assume positive intent. Yeah. We've been talking a lot about conflict. Yeah. And I mean I guess it depends on kind of whether you're an optimist or a pessimist and how you're looking at the world.

00:38:28:08 - 00:38:33:09
Michael David Davis
But is there ever really class that sort of.

00:38:33:15 - 00:38:33:22
Nicole Davis
Is there.

00:38:34:19 - 00:38:35:10
Michael David Davis
Is there really a.

00:38:35:10 - 00:38:58:01
Nicole Davis
Glass ceiling anyway? But, you know, I think a lot of these things can be, you know, alleviated or diminished by assuming positive intent. I truly believe that there are very few people on the planet who genuinely just want to get under your skin or I know I'm married to one of them, but.

00:38:59:09 - 00:39:03:08
Michael David Davis
I do strangely think that everyone is like trying to take advantage of everybody.

00:39:03:19 - 00:39:19:20
Nicole Davis
I so weird that, yeah, I think the people are doing their best, right. You know, and that may not always look the way that you want it to look. They that may not always manifest manifest in a way that aligns with your values or aligns with what you're feeling that day or the way that you want to do work.

00:39:20:07 - 00:39:27:03
Nicole Davis
But I do think that most people are doing the best that they can with the resources and experience that they've had and so if you even.

00:39:27:03 - 00:39:28:20
Michael David Davis
If you are a Karen or a Chad.

00:39:29:13 - 00:39:55:23
Nicole Davis
Oh my Lord, Anyway, so, you know, I think if you can go into conflicts with that lens as well, even though it's hard, it's really hard when you're having a conflict with someone. I think that makes things a lot easier and maybe helps you to be willing to talk through RHC to use some of your eyes statements to genuinely be curious and unpack what's going on with that other person so hopefully you can move your way through that conflict.

00:39:55:23 - 00:40:07:09
Michael David Davis
Yeah, I love it. And like, I don't really think that there's anything else to say about it. Once again, you just that that's a beautiful bow. I think I'm not going to even try to entice.

00:40:17:21 - 00:40:19:01
Nicole Davis
Lenny Clamor.

00:40:21:00 - 00:40:29:12
Michael David Davis
Who could actually. Oh, just suck it up. The vacuum cleaner.