Michael: Hi, welcome to My Thought Partner. This is the fifth episode, and it is communication and interpersonal skills.
Nicole: What? Was that not good communication?
Michael: Yeah, that's totally fine. Okay. All right, great. What is that, though?
Nicole: What is what?
Michael: Interpersonal skills. I get communication, but I don't know what interpersonal skills—I mean, don't get me wrong, I know what interpersonal skills are, but how is that related to communication?
Nicole: Oh, it's all one big ball of wax, no?
Michael: Okay. I'll take your word for it. All right.
Nicole: Well, let's just talk about it. Pew! Pew, pew, pew, pew. Cue the theme music and a loud laugh from me. Yeah, exactly.
Michael: Well, Nicole, since you said it's all one big ball of wax, I want to know how it's all related, because to me, in my mind, communication is—this is not the Webster's or Merriam's dictionary—but communication is the act of receiving and giving information. And how it's perceived by the environment around you.
Nicole: Great.
Michael: Is that a good...?
Nicole: I'll subscribe to that. Yeah, why not?
Michael: And then the interpersonal skill side of that is—ooh—I imagine it is something inside of me. It is this skill set, but it is the ability for me to be able to recognize what I should be doing to improve, or to be aware of, so that as I am communicating...
Nicole: Look, I'm like, this is a really clear demonstration of your communication skill.
Michael: Because inside, interpersonally, I'm like, "Just get to the point so people understand what you're saying," because Nicole is going to be much more succinct, and she's better. But I'm really trying to sound like I have a good pulse, touch on the pulse. But I don't think I do.
Nicole: Interpersonal skills?
Michael: Yeah, yeah.
Nicole: We need to introduce ourselves.
Michael: I'm Michael David Davis.
Nicole: And I'm Nicole Davis. That's probably the first step to having good interpersonal skills.
Michael: Fair enough. I just assumed everybody knew who we are. But if you're starting on this particular episode, then...
Nicole: Even if you're not, I feel like it's a good refresher.
Michael: Fair enough. Hey, so when I do run for a political campaign in the future, you will always know: "Oh, Michael David Davis. Okay, yeah, Michael."
Nicole: Yeah, so interpersonal skills are how you relate to other people, how you find commonality, how you kind of get along with other folks and find those points of connection.
Michael: Okay. Nancy, again, succinct. She's a better communicator than I am.
Nicole: Well, it is in my top five.
Michael: It's in your top five of what?
Nicole: Of CliftonStrengths. Is it CliftonStrengths?
Michael: It is.
Nicole: It's CliftonStrengths. I always forget if it's that or the Gallup. Yes, yes.
Michael: Okay, because it used to be for like 100 years.
Nicole: I know. So now I can never remember which one it is.
Michael: It's rebranded.
Nicole: But CliftonStrengths, if you do the StrengthsFinder assessment, which is—go ahead.
Michael: No, it's CliftonStrengths now. See, it's not even StrengthsFinder anymore. Isn't that weird?
Nicole: Yes, it is weird. But anyway, so when you take the CliftonStrengths assessment, you get a list of your top five strengths. You can get a more robust list also and kind of see how all of your strengths rank. But for me, within my top five, communication is one of the pieces, one of the strengths that's in my top five. Okay, so communication is really important.
Michael: I subscribe. I believe that 100%. I haven't even seen that report. I just know you.
Nicole: Yeah. Well, and I would say I have been told that I over-communicate sometimes.
Michael: Yes. But not by me. I don't dare.
Nicole: To me, that's just ensuring that you are able to maintain that interpersonal relationship, right? And that everyone's on the same page. That way, there are fewer surprises or upsets later. Or if there are surprises or upsets later, you've already communicated that there's a possibility that they might happen. And so it prevents them from being—they're just tiny explosions instead of catastrophic explosions.
Michael: I will say, too, I love over-communicators.
Nicole: Yeah, you do. Obviously.
Michael: I know, right? But even in any environment, I love over-communicators. And this is not comparing over-communicators out there to a wild animal or a domestic animal.
Nicole: Wow. Where's this going?
Michael: Well, so it's like, to me, I like riding horses that are a little bit out of control. In other words, I don't want to sit on a horse that is a deadbeat, that you have to spur on, you have to move along to try to get it to move. I want that horse that I've got to pull the reins back on, right?
So to me, when I think about an over-communicator, I think of an over-communicator as a wild, unbridled horse that is going to give me a flood of information, which then I'm able to go through and dig and pick and choose and get all the information, right? Does that make sense?
Nicole: It does. I don't know that I would go all the way through that metaphor, but I do hear you on the horse that you have to kick in the sides constantly.
Michael: Because if you're not getting a communicator, then it's like, I feel like I'm doing more than I need to do to just even get you to respond to yes or no. And if I can even get a sentence from you further as to the why, is it a yes or no, right?
Nicole: That's rough. But I will say, because communication is—I did the horse noise again—but because...
Michael: I see what you did there. Fair enough.
Nicole: Okay. Communication is one of my top five and one of my superpowers. Even with those people, I'm usually able to pull something out of them, but it's not my favorite. I would rather have someone who's ready to kind of go toe to toe with me and just tell me what's on their mind, or tell me all of their requirements, or whatever the case may be. It is a little upsetting sometimes when you're sitting across from someone who does not want to communicate or is disengaged from the conversation. And yes, everything is like pulling teeth.
Michael: Yeah. Okay. So I see then how that communication, interpersonal skill set is the ball of wax, how it comes together. So when I am thinking about then, why are we talking about this? Right? When I'm thinking about why we're talking about it, I'm going to come from a place where I thought this is important because it's frustrating to me. I get so frustrated from the lack of communicators.
Nicole: I do too, actually.
Michael: I think actually everybody gets tired of the lack of communicators, but we may not necessarily recognize it is because of the person who is not communicating, and/or I don't have the interpersonal skill set to also acknowledge that I'm not receiving enough communication.
Nicole: Yeah. Well, I was going to say, I actually don't know if it's that everyone is frustrated and annoyed by the non-communicators. I think it's that communication mismatch is what causes like 92.6% of friction and frustration in this world.
Michael: Where did you get that stat?
Nicole: From my noggin. All right. But I just think that it's not necessarily that I love to communicate and you hate to communicate. It's that I communicate in this way and you communicate in that way. And neither of us is taking the time to say, "How do you communicate? This is how I communicate. How can we find something in the middle?"
Michael: Okay. So I'm thinking about something that's not—it is related, but it's not what we talk about. I'm sure there's other podcasts out there, but that makes me think of the love languages. So outside of love languages and that personal relationship, what are ways then—how are we doing that checking? How am I supposed to reach out and ask somebody and say—I just feel like I've never done it in a conversation—"By the way, this is how I communicate. How do you communicate? I expect you to communicate." I know you do, don't you? Oh my gosh. Yeah. I don't know.
Nicole: Are you serious? You never do that?
Michael: No, I think I just do it.
Nicole: Are you serious?
Michael: I do it by example. I think I do the example setting. I don't feel like I do the ask, because it does tend to work out less than 92.6% of the time. That sounds like a body temperature. Is that right?
Nicole: No, it's 98.
Michael: Nick Lachey is going to get upset. Oh, it's 98. Yeah, that's right. Fair enough. So to me, then maybe that's why I get upset. Nick Lachey is going to get upset. I was thinking 98 Degrees. Right. He's going to get upset. All right. Fair enough. We're dating ourselves now. But I think then that maybe that is why I do get frustrated with under-communicators, or those that don't communicate as much, because I'm not setting the precedent like you, or I'm not saying...
Nicole: Well, maybe because you're also an under-communicator, by the way.
Michael: Wow.
Nicole: It's just at a different level. Compared to me, you're an under-communicator, right? But then compared to someone else, you're not. But it's interesting. I think that you have never set that standard with someone—genuinely, I'm genuinely surprised by that.
Michael: Because, I don't know, maybe because I feel like I'm already setting so many expectations that—yeah. I will try this moving forward, though. I will come back and say, "Hey, this worked." Or the person was like, "What the heck? That was too many asks. You already asked me for 24 things. The 25th, that was the 25th, and that was too much." All I just want is communication. "Yeah, buddy, I'm sorry. That's too many."
Nicole: Right.
Michael: Okay. All right. I'm going to try it. But...
Nicole: Yeah, but I do that quite often, where...
Michael: So you're having a conversation with a person, or you're emailing them. How do you bring that up?
Nicole: Well, it's usually when we're starting a relationship with a new client or with a new team, new group, and we're kind of laying the foundation of what our work together is going to look like. And so to me, that's just kind of an element of project management, is that you come up with your communication plan. And this is the cadence within which we'll—I mean, now I'm feeling, honestly, I'm feeling a little self-conscious. I think it's not what normal people do.
But this is the cadence within which we're going to communicate. This is the mode that works best for us. Some folks get really annoyed with Slack or Teams or—just kind of having that constant ping or that constant accessibility. So certain people want to just get kind of a daily roll-up or a weekly roll-up via email. But yeah, I mean, I definitely talk through that with people.
Michael: Then I'm going to take back what I said. So I do do that. But I guess, in my mind, I was thinking that you are going, "Hi, new client. I just want you to be aware that I like to email you at certain times of the day. And then I expect you to respond back to me at a certain time. And if you get a call from me, then that means it's urgent."
And in my mind, I'm imagining this conversation where, if I think I heard you correctly, and if I'm already doing this in practice, when I'm building out a scope of work for a client or a project, or if I'm building out an action plan, I am talking about our check-ins. Like, here's what I'm going to provide. I also need you to provide this to me. I will then set that precedent of the follow-ups. When are they occurring? How often those follow-ups are, what the types of follow-ups are. And kind of, here's my ask, and I need this within a certain time frame. So is that what you're saying?
Nicole: Yeah. But I think it's also just the nuance of it, right? I mean, there are also times when you're just checking in with people during a conversation or during a meeting or during an interaction of, "Is this working for you?" I think we have those little habits of "Does that make sense?" I hate that phrase. It's a little triggering to me. I know you say it all the time.
Michael: I say, "Do you understand where I'm coming from?"
Nicole: No, you say...
Michael: "Does that make sense?"
Nicole: "Does that make sense?"
Michael: Because I know I ramble. So to me, I know that the person probably got it within the first 15 seconds, and four minutes later...
Nicole: So true.
Michael: I've confused myself. So I want to check in with them to see that I didn't thoroughly confuse them.
Nicole: Right. But I think what I often say as a response to that was, "Well, I understood all of the words that you were saying."
Michael: I think people have heard this already from you.
Nicole: "But I'm not sure that I am totally following where you're going with this." Or sometimes people say that when it's really obvious what they say. "Yes, that makes sense." And it almost feels condescending when people say it, because, yeah, anyone would understand what you were saying just there. What are you actually trying to say? What you're actually trying to say is, "Do you agree with me?" Right. So to me, that's an example of just be more direct in your communication. Just be more clear in your communication. Don't say something to kind of, I don't know, smooth the corners or whatever. Just be direct. Do you agree?
Michael: Okay. I don't disagree. But again, I'm thinking about this as you're talking about it. I'm thinking about the interactions I've had with other people on this planet. Other human beings. And I think sometimes I say, "Do you understand?" because maybe I see them glossing over, or the communication was at a really good flow, and then it just seemed to—it feels like I'm going uphill, or something has stalled out.
So I think to me, when I ask that, instead of blatantly saying, "Hey, are you still paying attention?" when I say, "Do you understand?" it is me just trying to bring them back into the conversation without calling them out for seemingly being rude. Do I say that to you?
Nicole: "Does that make sense?" Yeah. All the time.
Michael: Maybe I should just start saying, "Are you still paying attention to me?"
Nicole: Yeah, exactly. I think that's far more direct communication.
Michael: All right. Sounds good. Okay. So now, I think you touched a little bit on this, about building relationships and that communication. So some of us might be brave and bold to be direct. Some of us may not be. What other things can I do to kind of build that rapport and build that relationship so that I do feel more confident about my communication style, so that I can feel safe in messing up? I don't know. Or being wrong? I feel like I'm wrong with you a lot.
Nicole: Really?
Michael: No. I just thought that—that just seemed like the right thing to say. See? Not a great communicator, because I was not direct or honest. Okay. About those building relationships: this is not how you do it.
Nicole: Yeah. This is not the path to building relationships. I think in building relationships, with any relationship, it doesn't really matter who it's with, trust needs to be the foundation of that. And so the way that you can establish trust and build rapport with people is through honesty and transparency. I think that those are kind of the biggest factors. And just finding those opportunities to be yourself, to be candid, to be vulnerable when it makes sense.
Obviously, and I think we've talked about this before, there are some people, whether it's a client or a coworker or whomever, who will take advantage of those moments of vulnerability. So you have to kind of figure out when that makes sense and when it doesn't. But I think being open and honest with folks is something that's broadly appreciated. And people want that level of transparency and also want to feel like they can reciprocate that.
Michael: Yeah. Okay. How do I feel—somebody who might be guarded, somebody who has been burned, or somebody who has attempted that and it was not received very well, or I just got stuff thrown back into my face. I don't know you. I don't know the person that I'm working with. I don't know you. It's a new relationship. It's a new client interaction. It's a new anything. How can I still feel comfortable and safe? What can I communicate to give that ability to say, "Look, this is..." and then feel comfortable being transparent without feeling like I'm going to be taken advantage of?
Nicole: Listen, I'm going to go textbook right now, okay? But I think I-statements go a long way. You know the old-school I-statement.
Michael: My eyeball hurts. My eyeballs are—no, that's not the right one.
Nicole: That's—this is rough.
Michael: Nicole, I care about you. I want you to understand that when I'm having a conversation, I will listen to you. No?
Nicole: Sure. So, I-statements usually start with "I feel." So kind of that formula is "I feel," however you feel...
Michael: Like right now, you are smarter than me.
Nicole: No. So, "I feel, hmm, when specific example happens." Right? So I honestly use I-statements all the time. I use I-statements in really uncomfortable situations to get to the bottom of what's going on. I don't like to be uncomfortable. And so let's find the most direct path to get me out of uncomfortable land. And that's usually just by asking, "What's going on? What's up?"
So if I'm in—I don't know what the scenario is—but if I'm in a conversation with someone and it does look like they glazed over, or they're distracted or whatever, say, "I feel like I lost you somehow. I noticed that you stopped nodding. We were on the same page, and I somehow lost you. Did I ramble for too long? What's on your mind?"
Michael: Have you had people say that to you? "You've rambled too long."
Nicole: No.
Michael: I have.
Nicole: I'm sure you have. I have. People other than me have said that to you. Yes, yes. Okay. So that just kind of being direct and cutting to the chase—usually if there's some way that you can kind of have some sort of self-deprecating comment in there, that can kind of ease it a little bit. But to me, that's the easiest way to just figure out what it is. Instead of telling myself whatever story I've made up in my head as to why they look zoned out or whatever, just ask.
Michael: Okay. The hypothetical MDD, because you know that this would not be me. I'm too—I don't want that confrontation. Because even though it doesn't seem like it's confrontation, or it doesn't seem like it's a big confrontation, it doesn't seem like it's a big friction point, right? I just can't imagine, again, that somebody either is self-aware, or I also can't imagine that someone is comfortable enough to say, "I'm feeling a little weird right here," or "I'm feeling something." Because to me, that means I'm admitting I'm flawed, or I'm admitting I'm right.
Nicole: Listen, and I've had that happen. Okay. And I think there's a cultural aspect to this as well, right? So I think that typically in the US, people are maybe a little bit more willing to answer that question or to be a bit more upfront. I've certainly had conversations with some international teams where that was not the case, right? And they would never in a million years, first of all, imagine that I would ask something like that, or directly answer something like that.
So it is contextual. But again, I think that that's how you begin to build rapport and build a relationship. And if you ask a direct question like that, and the person doesn't directly answer you, you know where you stand, right? So at least you have some more data to kind of put in your database about who that person is and how you interact with them. Because guess what? If someone also has a terrible response to that, then I know. All right.
Michael: So you're that horse. I'm going to have to spur you quite a bit and make sure that I got to get something else going.
Nicole: Yeah. Or that direct communication doesn't work for you. And I think that's kind of the other thing, is being able to mirror that other person and adapt to how they're communicating, adapt to their energy level, whatever the case may be, right? That if they're—I think we have heard a bit that we can be a lot, right?
Michael: Oh, us in general. Yes, yes. We overwhelm a lot of people.
Nicole: And so I have heard in conversations that I can be intimidating, even though I don't think I'm intimidating at all. I think I just...
Michael: My knees are shaking under the table.
Nicole: I just think I have a lot of energy and I have a lot to say. And I think that sometimes, especially when I get excited about something, I can overwhelm the people that I'm with. So I have to just be aware of kind of taking a moment, reading the room, and then matching the person that I'm with. And if they're not energized, excited, ready to go, then it feels awkward, or like a mismatch, for me to be throwing the confetti and ready to have a party in this conversation.
Michael: Okay. I want to talk about that more, because you're alluding to our second segment of the tools and how you can disarm people and help get the preparation so that people understand how you're going to communicate with them. Right after the second segment. I don't know why I was saying it like that.
Nicole: Saying what?
Michael: "Right after this."
Nicole: You're just feeling a little game show hosty. Two and two. Chuck Woolery. I like it.
Michael: I wasn't going to do it, though.
Nicole: But you did. I didn't say it. Now it's been done. All right. I said it. Two and two. We'll be back. Let's do this.
Michael: Are you recording? I'm recording.
Nicole: Great. Both of us. Our best selves in this moment.
Michael: I'm just having fun. This time we're back for real. And I'm with my wife and thought partner, Nicole Davis.
Nicole: Hey, Michael David Davis.
Michael: I am. Yeah. Good job. I didn't have to introduce myself. That's so nice. All right. We talked a lot about communication. We've even talked about the tools surrounding that, which we were supposed to save for the second half, this half. But I did not. I did not follow the script. We even have an agenda. Surprise, surprise, surprise. It did not stay on our agenda and bullet points. It's just so hard. It's the rule breaker in me.
Nicole: It's really not that hard, but obviously a little challenging.
Michael: Okay. So I want to make this—it is a challenge—but I want to make this still good for everyone else. All right. So one of the things I was thinking about, and one of the things that we talked about prior to recording, is setting our own expectations. So I think we talked a lot about communication and how to set that expectation for other people. You mentioned different formats of tone, or your communication style, and asking for that.
But I think that where a lot of people struggle is setting their own expectation. In other words, how to appropriately react to something that may or may not go your way. Does that make sense? Oh, I did it. It is habitual. That is it. Wow. You're not wrong.
Nicole: I know.
Michael: Maybe, though, if she reacted like that, I would notice it more often. It would drop out so fast.
Nicole: I really did. I really thought you were kidding.
Michael: I'm not kidding.
Nicole: See? Hence the epic eye roll.
Michael: But that was real from you, too.
Nicole: It was real for me, because I thought you were kidding.
Michael: I see. Anyway, I've learned something about myself today.
Nicole: Those words make sense to me. Okay, yeah, great. What would you like to say?
Michael: I would like—I don't need to say any more. I would like to know how better to—how can we temper our own expectations?
Nicole: How to temper our own expectations? Yeah. Can you just say a little more, or maybe give a scenario? I know I rarely ask for you to say more, but in this moment, I need a little bit more.
Michael: Yes. I have a mantra: confidence, not dominance. I have to remind myself of that. I also have a mantra that I have recently adapted. That is...
Nicole: Adopted?
Michael: But I'm also adapting it.
Nicole: Oh, okay.
Michael: Yeah. Like in my daily activities. Reading before reacting. Because I'm very passionate. There's a little bit of that Latin blood in me, that when I read something right off the bat—I'm going to admit, I'm a headline reader. I'm on Reddit reading 45 headlines, and then I give a synopsis to Nicole that is not what the article's about.
Nicole: No. That's not what happens. He sends me the articles, outraged. And then I read them and tell him that his outrage is not founded in anything—is not grounded in anything, rather—because he just read the headline.
Michael: I'm acting like political parties.
Nicole: Indeed.
Michael: But, okay, so that started me on this path of reading before reacting, because I would find myself getting stirred up for no reason, instead of taking the extra maybe 15 seconds to read it and process it, and then respond. So reading it, process, respond, as opposed to reading and reacting.
Nicole: Sure.
Michael: Okay. Was that a good enough example?
Nicole: That was. Thank you for expanding.
Michael: Whew, that was rough.
Nicole: Uh-huh. I know. You almost said it again, didn't you?
Michael: Yeah, but see, I caught myself. Work in progress.
Nicole: Do you see, though, how it is a little condescending? Yeah. It doesn't feel good.
Michael: In that moment, it definitely—I saw how it could be that way.
Nicole: Right. Which I don't think is your intention at all.
Michael: It is not, no.
Nicole: But I think usually that—and I know I'm not answering your question—but I think it's usually something that is said when you have to repeat yourself, or when someone asks for clarification. Does that make sense?
Michael: Instead of saying "um," I'm like, "Does that make sense?"
Nicole: Right. Whereas I go, "Uh."
Michael: Okay. Fair enough. Anyway, let's get to it.
Nicole: So now I forget what the question was, but it's about reacting and taking a moment. And so I honestly think that this kind of comes back to the mindfulness conversation that we've had before, around just taking a beat. Take a breath, for goodness' sake. And I have a hard time with this when it's live, when it's in a conversation and someone says something and I'm like, "Oh, hang on. What now?" I do not have a poker face at all. Never have. I hope someday I will. But when something hits me the wrong way, it is all over my face.
So I sometimes have a hard time taking a beat in the moment. Or even if it's not that someone has said something that rubs me the wrong way, but I am asked a question on the spot, I don't always give myself a beat when it's live to process and think about what I want to say. I feel compelled to just respond right away.
So I would say in real time, it's something I struggle with. When it's something that's written—I mean, you see me—if I get a note or an email or something that I'm like, "Uh-uh," I will get up from my desk and walk away. Walk around the house. I will pace around the house. I will do whatever I need to do, and then go sit back down and take a look at it again.
Michael: Yeah. It's tormenting to our dogs. It's like, "Oh, is it time? We get to go for a W-A-L-K?" And we had to spell it, because if we don't spell it, then, yeah.
Nicole: Yeah. But I think just taking a moment and giving yourself the time to be in a better headspace, or to read it with fresh eyes or whatever. And this actually just happened to us in a personal scenario where there was some communication...
Michael: You mean we are real people and we have real interactions?
Nicole: Yeah. We are fully multidimensional people. But some communication went out, and one of our personal contacts kind of went and acted based off of what she thought that communication said.
Michael: Or he.
Nicole: Or is it she? But it was totally wrong. And it threw a bunch of other people off, because she just responded and reacted. And I think we've all seen that. We've all done that, where you get an email and you just forward it off. And so I think it is just kind of, as you said, read and then react.
Michael: But also, to add to that context, I can imagine that person felt they were being proactive.
Nicole: Totally. Right?
Michael: Yeah. And that they were trying to get ahead of this. However, not only was the information sent out inaccurately, it was sent out at an inappropriate time, to add to the...
Nicole: Correct. Anxiety.
Michael: For the receiver, right? And I think to me...
Nicole: It was sent out at like one in the morning.
Michael: We've all had those emails. We've all had those things. So again, on a Friday evening—we've talked about this, Friday evening—if you have a boss, or you have somebody that's sending you an email. Or an all hands on deck: "We got to have this. This is an urgent matter. I know you're about to walk out the door, but..." Nothing is that urgent unless somebody has to go to the ER, or somebody's life is in danger. Anything and everything else can be solved at a later date and time. And I will challenge anybody who tells me differently.
Nothing is life-threatening based on almost any client interaction or any email that's going to go out. If it's something that urgent, you're on the phone call taking care of it, right? You're doing something there. So there's no reason, in my mind, that you're communicating something that's going to generate further anxiety to somebody else, because that's an awful place to be as the receiver. And then I think you're setting up a bad tone for you to receive that information as the person who actually sent that out, because no one's going to respond based on the expectation you sent out. No one's going to give you the reaction that you're thinking, right?
Nicole: And I've had this happen at work before, too, exactly what you're saying, that there's a feeling of urgency from the person who is the keeper of this information, right? And to me, the way that I see it is that you want to kind of pay the anxiety forward. Like, "I shouldn't be the keeper of this information. I shouldn't be the only one that knows this."
I remember I had someone call me once on a Sunday saying that one of their direct reports had given them notice. And I said, "Okay, tell me what you would like me to do about that today." "Well, I just didn't think that I should be the only one to know that." It's like, I hear you, but now you have forwarded your anxiety onto me, right? And so now I'm having a bad Sunday as well.
You have just kind of shared the wealth of this ball of anxiety. And now I'm having a rough Sunday because I'm thinking about what's coming on Monday, when I really can't do anything—Sunday scaries back again—when I really can't do anything about it, right? So I think that's the other thing, and I'm glad you brought that up: before you forward and before you pass the anxiety on, think about if it's really necessary. Are you going to be able to find a solution faster by doing that, or are you just going to upset more people by doing that?
Michael: Yeah. Okay. And when I think about this, and I think about this a lot, because I think it does—is that not only can we help manage our own expectations, our actions, as we all know, have an impact on other people.
So taking that beat, reading before reacting, looking inside and saying, "Is this necessary at this time?" I think that to me is probably one of the strongest interpersonal communication skills that you can have. Because if you're able to just manage that messaging that comes from within, whether you're speaking for an organization, whether you're speaking for yourself, if you're able to take yourself out of that and put yourself in that empathic position of, "What is the receiver going to think about this when I get that?"
And to add, you got to remember, it's not how you expect the receiver to receive that information. How will the receiver that is getting this actually act? How is their personality going to react to this? Not the way that I want you to, right?
And I think to me, if you—again, you don't have to time block this—but if you can do that for 30 seconds, or if you're prepping something that you feel is urgent that needs to go out, walk away. Like you said, get into a different headspace. Maybe this is the time that you go for a walk. Maybe this is the time that you do one of those little physical stretches. Or maybe this is the time that you take the bio break that Nicole also feels is part of these...
Nicole: It counts.
Michael: Yeah, it does count. Sure. Thank you. Fair enough. If you come back and that urgency still seems like it is there, then is that message only an unbiased, urgent call that is appropriate for what's happening at that time? I didn't say that.
Nicole: Does that make sense?
Michael: Does it? I want to know who else says, "Does that make sense?" I'm very curious. But is that a good way to kind of wrap that up and think about it?
Nicole: Yeah. I think there was one last little nugget that we wanted to talk about.
Michael: Let's hear it.
Nicole: And so I think we talked about the pushing forward of information, right? Of reading before you react. I think the other piece around communication is not just your communication, but how you get others to communicate, and how you receive that information and pull that out of other people. And I think we have both, over the years, coached a lot of salespeople, a lot of teams, on how to have engaging conversations. And to me, it always just comes down to being naturally curious, and asking.
You can have your list of questions that you want to ask someone, especially in a sales setting, or when you're having a first meeting with a client and kind of trying to understand the scope and exactly what the expectations are. You can have your list of questions. You can have your questioning palette that you want to touch on a couple different areas. But at the end of the day, you're going to be able to build that stronger relationship. You're going to be able to really get to the bottom of whatever it is by just being naturally curious and just asking questions that are interesting to you, right?
Because that lets the other person know you actually care, that you are engaged, right? And it gets you some of those little tidbits, or some nuance, that you might not have gotten to otherwise if you feel like you have to kind of stick to this script of, "Well, first I ask this, and then I ask that." So I think that's great for that initial conversation, but then also moving that relationship forward, just always kind of checking in and being naturally curious.
I think that is why—part of the reason why I'm so direct with my communication is because I just want to know. I just want to know, how you doing? I care about you. Are you feeling okay? Is the way we're conducting this meeting working for you? Are there still answers that you have? Boy. So, questions that you have.
Michael: That made sense to me, though.
Nicole: Great. But I think that being naturally curious is a really big part of empathy, and that's a straight shot to building those strong relationships with others.
Michael: Yeah. And I feel like I want to wrap this up in a simple way of saying, remember, we're all human. We all, again, have a lot of external things happening around us. And so remember, when you are doing any type of communication, and to whomever that might be, they're human as well. And even if they're not human—if you talk to your plants, it's already scientifically proven. I don't have the source, but it's out there.
Do it with all those search engines that are in your little fingertips, or on your fingertips, at your fingertips, all those things. Yeah, I know. Here we go again. I'm just going to wrap this up quickly. Okay. Just going to say...
Nicole: Famous last words.
Michael: Be human. Be human. That's all it takes. Yeah. We'll talk next week. See ya.
Oh, Nicole, I love doing this with you. It's so much fun. We're back. Okay.
Nicole: Oh, Nicole.
Michael: I can't wait [inaudible].
Nicole: No, no, no.
Michael: We did it. Now we can't do it again.
Nicole: Start over. Please start over. Please.
Michael: Please. Okay.
