Communication & Interpersonal Skills
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Michael David Davis
Hi. Welcome to my thought partner. This is the fifth episode and it is communication and interpersonal skills.
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Nicole Davis
Huh? What was that like? A communication.
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Michael David Davis
Huh? Huh? Yeah, that's totally fine. Okay. Okay. What is that, though?
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Nicole Davis
What is what?
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Michael David Davis
Interpersonal skills. Like, I get communication, but I don't know what. Interpersonal skills. I mean, don't get me wrong. I know interpersonal skills are, but how is it related to communication?
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Nicole Davis
Oh, it's. It's all one big ball of wax now.
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Michael David Davis
Okay, I'll take your word for it. All right.
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Nicole Davis
Well, let's just talk about it. Boo! Boo!
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Nicole Davis
Boo boo! You.
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Nicole Davis
You cue the theme music and a loud laugh for me. Yeah, exactly.
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Michael David Davis
Well, Nicole, since you said it's all one big ball of wax, I want to know how it's all related, because to me, in my mind, communication is this is not the Webster's or Miriam's Dictionary, but communication is the act of receiving and giving information. Sure. And how it's perceived by the environment around you.
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Nicole Davis
Great.
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Michael David Davis
Is that a good.
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Nicole Davis
Subscribe to that? Oh, yeah. Why not?
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Michael David Davis
And then the interpersonal skills side of that is who I like. I imagine it is something that inside of me. Yes, it is this skill set, but it is it is the ability for me to be able to recognize what I should be doing to improve or to be aware of so that as I am communicating.
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Nicole Davis
Look like this is a really clear demonstration of your communication.
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Michael David Davis
Because inside, interpersonally, I'm like you stated a point so people understand what you're saying because Nicole is going to be much more succinct and she's better about like, I'm really trying to sound like that. I have a good pulse. Touch on the pulse. Okay. I don't think I do.
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Nicole Davis
Interpersonal skills.
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Michael David Davis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Nicole Davis
And we can introduce ourselves.
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Michael David Davis
I'm Michael David Davis.
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Nicole Davis
And I'm Nicole Davis. That's probably the first step to having good interpersonal skills.
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Michael David Davis
That's fair enough. I just assumed everybody knew who you are. But if you're starting on this particular episode, then.
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Nicole Davis
Even if you're not, I like. It's a good refresher.
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Michael David Davis
Sharon Hey. So when I do run for political campaign in the future, you always know Michael. David Davis Okay, Yeah.
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Nicole Davis
So yeah, so interpersonal skills are how you relate to other people, how you find commonality, how you kind of get along with other folks and find those points of connection.
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Michael David Davis
Okay. Nancy, again, succinct. She's a better communicator than I am.
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Nicole Davis
Well, it isn't my top five.
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Michael David Davis
It is your top five of what?
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Nicole Davis
Of Clifton Strengths, is it? Clifton Strengths?
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Michael David Davis
It is.
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Nicole Davis
It's Clifton struggle if it's that or the Gallup. Yes, Yes.
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Michael David Davis
Because it used to be for like 100 years high now.
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Nicole Davis
So now I can never know which one it is now.
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Michael David Davis
It's rebranded.
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Nicole Davis
But Clifton strengths if you do the strengths finder assessment which is. So go ahead.
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Michael David Davis
No it's Clifton strengths now so he's not even strength finder anymore. Isn't it weird?
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Nicole Davis
Yes, it is weird. But anyway. But so when you take the Clifton strengths assessment, you get a list of your top five strengths. You can you can get a more robust list also and kind of see how all of your strengths rank. But for me, within my top five communication is one of the pieces. One of the strengths is in my top five.
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Nicole Davis
Okay, so communication is really important.
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Michael David Davis
I subscribe. I believe that 100%.
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Nicole Davis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Michael David Davis
I haven't even seen that report. I don't know you.
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Nicole Davis
Yeah, well, and I would say I have been told that I overcommunicate sometimes.
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Michael David Davis
Yes. Uh huh. But not by me.
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Nicole Davis
I.
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Michael David Davis
I don't dare.
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Nicole Davis
To me, that's just ensuring that you are able to maintain that interpersonal relationship. Right. And that everyone's on the same page that way there are fewer surprises or upsets later. Or if there are surprises or upsets later, you've already communicated that there a possibility that they might happen. And so it prevents them from being there, just like tiny explosions and stuff, like catastrophic explosions.
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Michael David Davis
I will say to I love over communicators and I.
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Nicole Davis
Obviously.
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Michael David Davis
I know, right. But even those in any environment I love over communicators and this is not comparing over communicators out there to a wild animal or a domestic animal, but it's like.
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Nicole Davis
It's going.
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Michael David Davis
Well. It's so it's like to me, I like riding horses that are a little bit out of control. Like, in other words, I don't want to sit on a horse that is a dead beat, okay? That you had to like spur on at the table to like, try to get it to move. I want that horse and I've got to pull the reins.
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Nicole Davis
Oh, right. Agreed.
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Michael David Davis
So to me, when I think about an over community, I would think of an overt communicator as this wild, unbridled horse that is going to give me a flood of information, which then I'm able to like go through and dig and pick and choose and hold information. Right. Does that make sense? It does.
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Nicole Davis
I don't know that I would go all the way through that metaphor. I but I do hear you on the horse that you have to, like, break it in the slides because.
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Michael David Davis
If you're not getting a communicator, then it's like, Oh, look, I feel like I'm doing.
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Nicole Davis
Man more.
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Michael David Davis
And I need you to just even get you to respond to yes or no. And I can even get a sentence from you further as to the why, that's is it a yes or no, right.
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Nicole Davis
That's right. Yeah. But I will say because communication is I did the horse noise again, but because.
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Michael David Davis
Of.
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Nicole Davis
Communication as one of my top five and one of my superpowers, even with those people, I'm usually able to pull something out of them. But it's not my favorite. I would rather have someone who is ready to kind of go toe to toe with me and just tell me what's on their mind or tell me all of their requirements or whatever the case may be.
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Nicole Davis
Yeah, it is a little upsetting sometimes when you're sitting across from someone who does not want to communicate or is disengaged from the conversation. And yes, everything is like pulling teeth.
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Michael David Davis
Yeah. Okay. So I see then how that communication, interpersonal skill set is the ball of wax, how it comes together. Yeah. So when I am thinking about then how, why are we talking about this? Right? When I think about why we're talking about it, I'm going to come from a place where I thought, this is important because it's frustrating to me.
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Michael David Davis
I get so frustrated from the lack of communicators. Got it right. I think that I.
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Nicole Davis
Do too, actually.
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Michael David Davis
I think actually everybody gets tired of the lack of communicators, but we may not necessarily recognize it is because of the person who is not communicating and or I don't have the interpersonal skill set to also acknowledge that I'm not receiving enough communication.
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Nicole Davis
Yeah, well, I was going to say, I actually don't know if it's that everyone is frustrated and annoyed by the non communicators. I think it's that communication mismatch is what causes like 92.6% of friction in frustration in this world.
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Michael David Davis
Where did you get that stat from?
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Nicole Davis
My noggin. All right. I just think that it's not necessarily that like I love to communicate and you hate to communicate. It's that I communicate in this way and you communicate in that way. And neither of us is taking the time to say how you communicate. This is how I communicate. Yeah. How can we find something in the middle?
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Michael David Davis
Okay, so I'm thinking about something that's not it is relay, but it's not what we talk about. I'm sure there's other podcasts out there, but like, you know, like, that makes me think of, like, the love languages. So when outside of love languages and like that personal relationship, like what are ways in that? How are we doing that checking?
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Michael David Davis
How am I supposed to reach out and ask somebody and say, I just feel like I've never been in a conversation? By the way, this is how I communicate. How do you communicate? I expect you to really. I know you do, don't you? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I don't know.
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Nicole Davis
Are you serious? You never do that.
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Michael David Davis
No, I think I just.
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Nicole Davis
Do it serious.
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Michael David Davis
I do it by example. I just. I do. I do the example setting I have. I don't feel like I do the ask because it does tend to work out less than 92.6% of the time. It sounds like a body temperature. Is that right?
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Nicole Davis
Oh yeah. Now it's 98.
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Michael David Davis
Nicholas Shea is going to get upset. Oh, it's 98. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I, yeah. So like to me then maybe that's why it's 98 degrees. Right. He's going to get upset. Yeah. All right. Now we're dating ourselves. Yeah. Yeah, but it's, I think then that maybe that is why I do get frustrated of under communicators or those that don't communicate as much as I'm not setting the presidents like you or I'm not saying.
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Nicole Davis
Well, maybe because you're also an under communicator, by the way. It's just at a different level. Okay. Like compared to me, you're an under communicator, right? But then compared to someone else. Yeah, you're you're not. So but it's interesting that you have never set that standard with someone that that genuinely I'm genuinely surprised by that because.
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Michael David Davis
It's I don't know, maybe because I feel like I'm already setting so many expectations at that. Yeah, I, I will try this moving forward. I will I will come back and say, Hey, this worked. Or the person was like, What the heck? That was too many. Ask you already asked me for 2014. That was the 25th and that was too rash.
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Michael David Davis
All I just want is communication. Yeah, buddy, I'm sorry. That's too many.
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Nicole Davis
Right.
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Michael David Davis
All right, I'm going to try it, but.
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Nicole Davis
Yeah, but I do that quite often.
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Michael David Davis
Okay.
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Nicole Davis
Where?
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Michael David Davis
So you. You're having a conversation with a person, or you're emailing them, like, how? How do you bring it up?
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Nicole Davis
Well, it's usually when we're starting a relationship with a new client or with a new team, new group, and we're kind of laying the foundation of what our work together is going to look like. And so to me, that's just kind of an element of project management, is that you come up with your communication plan and this is the cadence within which will I mean, I now I'm feel honestly, I'm feeling a little self-conscious.
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Michael David Davis
Of my no, I think.
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Nicole Davis
It's not what people do, but this is the cadence within which we're going to communicate. This is the mode that works best for us. You know, some folks get really annoyed with Slack or teams or what, you know, just kind of like having that constant pain or that constant accessibility. So certain people want to just get kind of like a daily roll up or a weekly roll up via email.
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Nicole Davis
But yeah, I mean, I definitely talk to that with people.
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Michael David Davis
I then I'm going to take back what I said.
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Nicole Davis
Okay.
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Michael David Davis
So I do do that now, but I don't I guess I was in my mind, I was thinking that you are going, Hi new client. I just want you to be aware that like I like to email you at certain times of the day and then like, I expect you to respond back to me at a certain time.
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Michael David Davis
And if you get a call from me, then that means it's like urgent. And you know, I'm in my mind, I'm imagining this conversation where if I think I heard you correctly, and that if I'm already doing this in practice, when I'm building out a scope of work for a client or a project. Yeah. Or if I'm building out like a an action plan, I am talking about when our check ends in, like, here's what I'm going to provide.
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Michael David Davis
I also need you to provide this to me. I will then set that precedence of like now follow ups. When are they occurring, How often those follow ups are, what the types of follow ups are, and kind of like, here's my ask and I need this within a certain timeframe. Yeah. So is that what you're saying?
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Nicole Davis
Yeah.
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Michael David Davis
Okay.
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Nicole Davis
Okay. But I think it's also just the nuance of it, right? I mean, there are also times when you're just checking in with people during a conversation or during a meeting or during an interaction of, is this working for you? You know, I think we have those little habits of does that make sense? I like I hate that phrase.
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Nicole Davis
I don't know. It's a little triggering to me. I know you say I do.
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Michael David Davis
I, I say, do you understand where I'm coming from?
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Nicole Davis
No. You say.
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Michael David Davis
Does that make sense?
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Nicole Davis
Sense?
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Michael David Davis
Because. Because I know I ramble. So to me, I know that the person probably got it within the first 15 seconds and 4 minutes later. So I've confused myself. So I want to check with you that I didn't thoroughly confuse them. Right.
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Nicole Davis
Yeah. So, but I think in what I often say as a response to that was, well, I understood all of the words that you were saying.
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Michael David Davis
People have heard this already from you.
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Nicole Davis
But you know, I'm not sure that I am totally following where you're going with this or or sometimes people say that when it's really obvious what they say. Yes. That makes sense. It it almost feels condescending when people say that because, yeah, anyone would understand what you were saying just there, you know, what are you actually trying to say?
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Nicole Davis
What you're actually trying to say is, do you agree with me? Right. So to me, that's an example of just be more direct in your communication. Just be more clear in your communication. Don't say something too. Kind of like, you know, I don't know, smooth the corners or or whatever. Just be direct. Do you agree?
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Michael David Davis
Okay. I don't disagree, but I think I you know, I again, I'm thinking about this as you're talking about I'm thinking about the interactions I've had with other people on this planet that are human beings. And I think sometimes I say, do you understand? Because maybe I see them glossing over or the communication was at a really good flow.
00:14:32:23 - 00:14:57:01
Michael David Davis
And then it just seemed to like, yeah, like it feels like I'm going uphill or like something is stalled out. So I think to me when I ask that instead of blatantly saying, Hey, are you still paying attention, like, I think like when I say, Do you understand? It is me just trying to bring them back into the conversation without calling them out for seemingly being rude.
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Michael David Davis
Do I say that to you?
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Nicole Davis
Does that make sense? Yeah, all the time.
00:15:01:16 - 00:15:05:03
Michael David Davis
Maybe I should just start saying, Are you still paying attention to me?
00:15:05:08 - 00:15:11:02
Nicole Davis
Exactly. Okay, I think that's more direct communication. Aren't All.
00:15:11:03 - 00:15:44:20
Michael David Davis
Right. Sounds good. Oh, okay. So now I think you touched a little bit on this about the building relationships and that communication. So some of us might be brave and bold to be direct. Some of us may not be. What other things can I do to kind of like build that rapport and build that relationship so that I do feel more confident about my communication style so that I can feel safe in messing up.
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Michael David Davis
I don't know, or being wrong. I feel like I'm wrong with you a lot.
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Nicole Davis
Really.
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Michael David Davis
No, I just thought, yeah.
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Nicole Davis
That just seemed like the right thing to say. See, not a great communicator because I was not direct or honest.
00:15:58:11 - 00:16:03:04
Michael David Davis
Okay, about those building relationships. This is not how you do it.
00:16:03:04 - 00:16:07:00
Nicole Davis
Yeah, this is not the path to build relationships.
00:16:09:01 - 00:16:38:05
Nicole Davis
I think, you know, in building relationships for any relationship, it doesn't really matter who it's with. Trust needs to be the foundation of that. And so the way that you can establish trust and build rapport with people is through honesty and and transparency. I think that those are kind of the biggest factors and just finding those opportunities to be yourself, to be candid, to be vulnerable when it makes sense.
00:16:38:05 - 00:17:03:19
Nicole Davis
You know, obviously and I think we've talked about this before, there are some people, whether it's a client or a coworker or whomever, who will take advantage of those moments of vulnerability. So you have to kind of figure out when when that makes sense and when it doesn't. But I think being open and honest with folks is something that's broadly appreciated and people want that that level of transparency and also want to feel like they can, you know, risper.
00:17:03:19 - 00:17:18:18
Michael David Davis
Kate Yeah, okay. How do, how do I feel? Like somebody who might be guarded, somebody who has been burned or somebody who has attempted that and it was not received very well or I just got stuff thrown back into my face. I don't know you. I don't know the person that.
00:17:18:18 - 00:17:19:03
Nicole Davis
I don't.
00:17:19:04 - 00:17:39:09
Michael David Davis
Know you. I don't you know, I it's a new relationship. It's a new client interaction. It's a new anything. How can I still feel comfortable and safe? What can I communicate to give that ability to say, look, this is I you know, I don't feel comfortable being transparent without feeling like I'm going to be taken advantage of.
00:17:39:09 - 00:17:46:16
Nicole Davis
Listen, I'm going to go textbook right now, okay? But I think I statements go a long way. You know, the old school I statement. Yeah.
00:17:46:16 - 00:17:51:12
Michael David Davis
My eyeball hurts my eyeballs or how Now that's not the right one.
00:17:51:18 - 00:17:53:04
Nicole Davis
That's this is this is right.
00:17:53:06 - 00:18:03:12
Michael David Davis
Nicole, Like I care about you. I want you to understand that when I'm having a conversation, I will listen to you know?
00:18:03:15 - 00:18:08:07
Nicole Davis
Sure. So I usually start with I feel.
00:18:08:12 - 00:18:08:20
Michael David Davis
Oh.
00:18:08:20 - 00:18:15:03
Nicole Davis
Yes. So, you know, kind of that formula is I feel however you feel.
00:18:15:03 - 00:18:17:03
Michael David Davis
Like right now you are smarter than me.
00:18:17:09 - 00:18:47:10
Nicole Davis
No. So I feel firm when a specific example happens. Right. So I honestly I use I statements all the time. I use I statements in really uncomfortable situations to get to the bottom of of what's going on. You know, I don't like to be uncomfortable and so let's find the the most direct path to get me out of uncomfortable land.
00:18:47:17 - 00:19:09:15
Nicole Davis
And that's usually just by asking like, what's going on? What's up? So if I'm in, I don't know what the scenario is, but if I'm in a conversation with someone and it does look like they glazed over or they're distracted or whatever, say I feel like I lost you, somehow I noticed that you stopped nodding. We were on the same page and I somehow lost you.
00:19:09:15 - 00:19:13:12
Nicole Davis
Diary symbol for too long. What? What's going on? What's on your mind?
00:19:14:01 - 00:19:16:13
Michael David Davis
Have you had people say that to you? You've rambled too long.
00:19:18:11 - 00:19:18:18
Nicole Davis
No.
00:19:19:14 - 00:19:20:04
Michael David Davis
I have.
00:19:20:10 - 00:19:44:06
Nicole Davis
Yeah. I'm sure you have. I have people other than me. I've said that to you. Yes. Yes. Okay. So you know, that just kind of being direct and cutting to the chase, usually there's some way that you can kind of, you know, have some sort of self-deprecating comment and there can kind of ease it a little bit. But, you know, to me, that's the easiest way to just figure out what it is.
00:19:44:06 - 00:19:51:21
Nicole Davis
Instead of telling myself whatever story of I've made up in my head as to why they look zoned out or whatever, just ask.
00:19:51:22 - 00:20:05:05
Michael David Davis
Okay, the hypothetical MDD because you know that this would not be me. I'm I'm too I don't want that confrontation because even that it doesn't seem like it's confrontational. It doesn't seem like it's a big confrontation. It doesn't seem like it's a big.
00:20:06:16 - 00:20:06:23
Nicole Davis
Yeah.
00:20:07:01 - 00:20:25:02
Michael David Davis
Friction point, right? Yeah, I just can't imagine, again, that somebody either is self-aware or I also can't imagine that someone is comfortable enough to say, I'm feeling a little weird right here or I'm feeling something.
00:20:25:03 - 00:20:25:12
Nicole Davis
Yeah.
00:20:25:20 - 00:20:33:13
Michael David Davis
Because to me that is that means I'm admitting I'm flawed or I'm admitting I'm right.
00:20:33:20 - 00:20:53:13
Nicole Davis
And I have that happen. Okay. So and I think there's a cultural aspect to this as well, right? So I think that typically in the US, people are maybe a little bit more willing to answer that question or to be a bit more upfront. I certainly had conversations with some international teams where that was not the case. Right.
00:20:53:13 - 00:21:13:08
Nicole Davis
And they would never in a million years you don't first of all, imagine that I would ask something like that or directly answer something like that. So it is it is contextual. But again, I think that that's how you begin to build rapport and build our relationship. And if you ask a direct question like that and the person doesn't directly answer you, you know where you stand.
00:21:13:10 - 00:21:28:02
Nicole Davis
Yeah, right. So at least you have you have some more data to kind of put in, in your database about who that person is and how you interact with them. Because guess what? If someone also has a terrible response to that, then I know. All right.
00:21:28:13 - 00:21:35:15
Michael David Davis
So I say you're that horse. I mean, I had to spur you quite a bit and make sure that Sure I got to get something else going. Yeah.
00:21:35:15 - 00:21:58:00
Nicole Davis
Or that direct communication doesn't work for you. And I think that's kind of the other thing is being able to mirror that other person and adapt to how they're communicating, adapt to their energy level, whatever the case may be. Right. That, you know, if they are, I, I think we have heard a bit that like we can be a lot, right?
00:21:58:03 - 00:22:02:08
Michael David Davis
Oh, us in general. Yes. Yes. We overwhelm a lot of people. Yeah.
00:22:02:08 - 00:22:12:16
Nicole Davis
And so, you know, I have heard in conversations that I can be intimidating even I don't I don't think I'm intimidating at all. I think my.
00:22:12:16 - 00:22:14:07
Michael David Davis
Knees are shaking under the table.
00:22:14:17 - 00:22:43:14
Nicole Davis
I just think I have a lot of energy and I have a lot to say. And I think that sometimes, especially when I get excited about something, I can overwhelm the people that I'm with. So I have to just be aware of kind of taking a moment, reading the realm and then matching the person that I'm with. And if they're not energized, excited, ready to go, then it feels, you know, awkward or like a mismatch for me to be, you know, throw in the confetti and and ready to have a party in this conversation.
00:22:43:20 - 00:23:05:08
Michael David Davis
Okay. I want to talk about that more because I you're alluding to our second segment of the tools and like how you can disarm people and help get. Yeah, you know, the preparation so that people understand how you're going to communicate with them. Sure. Right after the second. I don't know why I was saying it like that.
00:23:05:10 - 00:23:05:23
Nicole Davis
Saying one.
00:23:06:04 - 00:23:07:12
Michael David Davis
Right after this.
00:23:09:00 - 00:23:14:07
Nicole Davis
You're like a little game show host two and you check whether you like it.
00:23:14:07 - 00:23:15:08
Michael David Davis
I wasn't going to do it though.
00:23:15:13 - 00:23:19:03
Nicole Davis
But you did. Now it's done. All right. I said it, too. And so.
00:23:20:06 - 00:23:21:00
Michael David Davis
Let's do.
00:23:21:00 - 00:23:22:01
Nicole Davis
This for you.
00:23:22:02 - 00:23:24:16
Michael David Davis
Recording and recording.
00:23:25:20 - 00:23:31:09
Nicole Davis
Great. Both of us. Our best, our best selves at this moment.
00:23:31:09 - 00:23:39:04
Michael David Davis
I'll just have fun this time. We're back for real. And I'm with my wife and my partner, Nicole Davis.
00:23:39:14 - 00:23:40:16
Nicole Davis
Hey, Michael. David Davis.
00:23:40:16 - 00:24:04:22
Michael David Davis
I am. Yeah. Good job. I didn't have to introduce myself. It's so nice. All right. We talked a lot about communication. We've even talked about the tools surrounding that, which we're supposed to say to the second half. This half. But I did not. I did not follow script. We even have an agenda. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Did not stay on our agenda.
00:24:04:22 - 00:24:10:00
Michael David Davis
And bullet points. It's just so hard. It's the rule breaker in me.
00:24:10:00 - 00:24:13:21
Nicole Davis
It's really not that hard. But seriously.
00:24:13:21 - 00:24:42:06
Michael David Davis
Okay, so I want to make this. Yeah, it is a challenge, but I want to make this still good for everyone else. And. Yeah, because I mean. Yeah. All right. So one of the things I was thinking about and one of the things that we talked about prior to recording is setting our own expectations. So I think we talked a lot about communication and how to set that expectation for other people.
00:24:42:06 - 00:25:13:21
Michael David Davis
You mentioned about different formats of tone or your communication style and asking for that. But I think that where a lot of people struggle is setting their own expectation. In other words, how to appropriately react to something that may or may not go your way, but does that make sense? Oh, I did it. I it is habitual, that is it.
00:25:13:21 - 00:25:15:15
Michael David Davis
Wow, you're not wrong.
00:25:16:00 - 00:25:17:00
Nicole Davis
I know.
00:25:17:02 - 00:25:21:23
Michael David Davis
Maybe though if she reacted like that, I would notice it more often. They would drop out so fast.
00:25:21:23 - 00:25:24:05
Nicole Davis
I, I really thought you were kidding.
00:25:24:05 - 00:25:25:07
Michael David Davis
I'm not kidding.
00:25:25:07 - 00:25:28:04
Nicole Davis
See, hence the epic eyeroll that was.
00:25:28:04 - 00:25:29:17
Michael David Davis
But that was real from you too.
00:25:29:21 - 00:25:31:00
Nicole Davis
It was real. Yeah.
00:25:31:08 - 00:25:31:15
Michael David Davis
I can.
00:25:32:04 - 00:25:33:07
Nicole Davis
You're kidding.
00:25:33:07 - 00:25:35:01
Michael David Davis
I see. I've learned something.
00:25:35:01 - 00:25:43:08
Nicole Davis
About. So. Yes, those words make sense to me. Okay. Yeah, Great. What would you like to say?
00:25:43:08 - 00:25:51:07
Michael David Davis
I would like. I don't need to say any more. I would like to know how better to how can we temper our own expectations?
00:25:51:07 - 00:26:00:23
Nicole Davis
How to temper our own expectations? Yeah. Can you just say a little more or maybe give a scenario? I know I rarely ask for you to say more, but in this moment. Yeah, a little bit more.
00:26:00:23 - 00:26:14:02
Michael David Davis
Yes, I, we, I have a, I have a mantra. Confidence, not dominance. Right. To remind myself that I also have a mantra that I have recently adapted. Yeah, that.
00:26:14:02 - 00:26:14:08
Nicole Davis
Is.
00:26:15:05 - 00:26:17:06
Michael David Davis
A but I'm also adapting it.
00:26:17:07 - 00:26:17:18
Nicole Davis
Oh okay.
00:26:17:19 - 00:26:41:14
Michael David Davis
Yeah. Like in my daily activities reading before reacting because I very passionate. There's a little bit of that Latin blood in me that when I read something right off the bat. Yeah I, I'm, I'm going to admit I'm a headline reader, I'm on read it and reading 45 headlines and then I give a synopsis to Nicole that.
00:26:41:21 - 00:26:42:07
Nicole Davis
No.
00:26:42:09 - 00:26:44:04
Michael David Davis
And not the articles about.
00:26:44:06 - 00:26:58:22
Nicole Davis
He sends me the articles. Yes. Outraged? Yes. And then I read them. Yes. And tell him that his outrage is not founded. It is just is not grounded in anything. Rather because he just read the headline.
00:26:58:22 - 00:27:00:12
Michael David Davis
I'm acting like political parties.
00:27:00:12 - 00:27:00:23
Nicole Davis
Indeed.
00:27:00:23 - 00:27:09:22
Michael David Davis
But okay. So that started me this path of reading before reacting because I would find myself getting stirred up.
00:27:10:00 - 00:27:10:16
Nicole Davis
Right for.
00:27:10:16 - 00:27:28:21
Michael David Davis
No reason because I instead of taking the extra maybe 15 seconds to read it and process it. Yeah. And then respond. So reading it process respond as opposed to reading and reacting.
00:27:29:03 - 00:27:29:11
Nicole Davis
Sure.
00:27:29:17 - 00:27:30:04
Michael David Davis
Okay.
00:27:30:05 - 00:27:31:16
Nicole Davis
So this is.
00:27:32:18 - 00:27:34:08
Michael David Davis
Was that a good enough example.
00:27:34:12 - 00:27:37:10
Nicole Davis
That was okay. Thank you for expanding who.
00:27:37:10 - 00:27:38:05
Michael David Davis
That was rough.
00:27:38:05 - 00:27:38:15
Nicole Davis
Uh huh.
00:27:39:02 - 00:27:39:09
Michael David Davis
Okay.
00:27:39:09 - 00:27:40:03
Nicole Davis
I know you almost.
00:27:40:12 - 00:27:43:12
Michael David Davis
I haven't seen myself in. Yeah. Work in progress.
00:27:43:13 - 00:27:50:14
Nicole Davis
Do you see, though, how it is a little condescending? Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't feel good in that moment.
00:27:50:14 - 00:27:53:19
Michael David Davis
It definitely. I saw that. How? It could be that way.
00:27:53:20 - 00:28:07:13
Nicole Davis
Right. But I don't think. Is your intention at all. No, but I think usually that and I know I'm not answering your question, but I think it's usually something that is said when you have to repeat yourself or when someone asks for clarity. Does that make.
00:28:07:13 - 00:28:10:19
Michael David Davis
Sense? Instead of saying, um, I'm like, does that make sense?
00:28:11:04 - 00:28:12:18
Nicole Davis
Right? Yeah. Whereas I don't.
00:28:13:15 - 00:28:15:22
Michael David Davis
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Anyway, let's get to it.
00:28:15:22 - 00:28:43:00
Nicole Davis
So now I figure with the question was, but it's about reacting and taking a moment. And so I honestly think that this kind of comes back to the mindfulness conversation that we've had before around just taking a beat, take a breath, for goodness sakes. And, you know, I have a hard time with this when it's live, when it's in a conversation and someone says something and I'm like, Oh, hang on, What now?
00:28:43:00 - 00:29:03:07
Nicole Davis
Yes, I, I do not have a poker face at all. Never have. I hope someday I will. But, you know, when something hits me the wrong way, it is all over my face. So I sometimes I have a hard time taking a beat in the moment, or even if it's not something that someone has said, something that rubs me the wrong way.
00:29:03:07 - 00:29:30:04
Nicole Davis
But I am asked a question on the spot. I don't always give myself a beat when it's live to process and think about what I want to say. I feel compelled to just respond right away. So I would say in real time, it's something I struggle with when it's something that's written. I mean, and you see me if I get a note or an email or something that I'm like, Ah, I will get up from my desk and walk away around the house.
00:29:30:04 - 00:29:36:17
Nicole Davis
I will pace around the house, I will do whatever I need to do and then go sit back down and take a look at it again.
00:29:36:18 - 00:29:43:04
Michael David Davis
Yeah, it's, it's tormenting to our dogs. Like, oh, is it time we get to go for a W? Okay. We had to spell it because if we don't spell.
00:29:43:23 - 00:29:59:06
Nicole Davis
Yeah. But you know, I think just taking a moment and giving yourself the time to be in a better headspace or to read it with fresh eyes or whatever it is actually just having to us in a like in a personal scenario where there was some communication.
00:29:59:06 - 00:30:01:15
Michael David Davis
We are real people and we have real interactions.
00:30:01:15 - 00:30:17:18
Nicole Davis
Yeah, we are fully multi-dimensional people, but some, some communication went out and you know, one of our, you know, personal contacts kind of like went and acted based off of what she thought that communication.
00:30:18:03 - 00:30:19:03
Michael David Davis
Or he.
00:30:19:16 - 00:30:42:09
Nicole Davis
As a she but you know and it was totally wrong and it like threw a bunch of other people off because she just responded and and reacted. And I think we've all seen that. We've all done that where you get email and you just forward it off or, you know, and so I think it is just kind of, as you said, read and then react.
00:30:42:16 - 00:30:50:14
Michael David Davis
But also to add to that context, it's yeah, it's a it's I can imagine that person felt they were being proactive.
00:30:50:14 - 00:30:51:20
Nicole Davis
Totally. Right.
00:30:51:20 - 00:31:01:09
Michael David Davis
Yeah. And that they were trying to get ahead of this. However, not only was the information sent out inaccurately.
00:31:01:13 - 00:31:02:00
Nicole Davis
Right.
00:31:02:00 - 00:31:07:01
Michael David Davis
It was sent out an inappropriate time to add to.
00:31:07:01 - 00:31:09:21
Nicole Davis
The correct anxiety.
00:31:10:01 - 00:31:13:07
Michael David Davis
For the receiver. And I think to me it was sent.
00:31:13:07 - 00:31:14:11
Nicole Davis
Out at like one in the morning.
00:31:14:11 - 00:31:31:13
Michael David Davis
We've all had those emails, we've all had this thing. So like again in a Friday, we talked about this Friday evening, if you have a boss, you have somebody that's sending you an email or an all hands on deck. We got to have this. This is an urgent matter. I know you're about to walk out the door, but there's nothing nothing is that urgent?
00:31:31:15 - 00:31:58:08
Michael David Davis
Unless somebody has to go to the E.R. or somebody whose life is in danger. Anything and everything else can be solved at a later date and time and I will challenge anybody who tells me differently. Nothing is life threatening based on almost any kind of interaction or any email that's going to go out. If it's something that's urgent, you're on the phone call taking care of it, right?
00:31:58:08 - 00:32:11:15
Michael David Davis
You're doing something there. So there's no reason in my mind that you're communicate writing something that's going to generate further anxiety to somebody else because that's an awful place to be as the receiver.
00:32:11:15 - 00:32:12:01
Nicole Davis
Yeah.
00:32:12:09 - 00:32:29:18
Michael David Davis
And then I think you're setting up a bad tone for you to receive that information as the person who actually sent that out because yeah, no one's going to respond based on the expectation you sent out. Like no one's going to give you the reaction that you're thinking. Right?
00:32:30:00 - 00:32:49:14
Nicole Davis
And I yeah, and I've had this happen at work before too, that exactly what you're saying, that there's a feeling of urgency from the person who is the keeper of this information. Right. And to me, the way that I see it is that you want to kind of like pay this anxiety forward, like I shouldn't be the keeper of this information.
00:32:49:20 - 00:33:12:11
Nicole Davis
I shouldn't be the only one that knows this. I remember I had someone call me once on a Sunday saying that one of their direct reports had given them notice. And I said, okay, tell me what you would like me to do about that today. Well, I just didn't think that I should be the only one to know that.
00:33:12:22 - 00:33:39:05
Nicole Davis
It's like I hear you. But now you have forwarded your anxiety on to me, right? And so now I'm having a bad Sunday as well. You have just kind of like, share the wealth of this ball of anxiety. And now I'm having a rough Sunday because I'm thinking about what's coming on Monday when I really can't do any scary Sunday Scaries back again when like, I really can't do anything about it, right?
00:33:39:05 - 00:33:59:16
Nicole Davis
So I think that's the other thing and I'm glad you brought that up, is before you forward and before you pass the anxiety on, think about it. It's really necessary, you know, is it is it going to be able to are you going to be able to find a solution faster by doing that or are you just going to upset more people by doing that?
00:34:01:01 - 00:34:29:18
Michael David Davis
Yeah. Okay. And I when I think about this and I think about this a lot because I think it does, is that not only can we help manage our own expectations, our actions, as we all know, have an impact on other people. So taking that beat, reading before reacting, looking inside and saying is this necessary at this time.
00:34:29:18 - 00:35:00:17
Michael David Davis
Mm hmm. I think that to me is probably one of the strongest interpersonal communication skills that you can have, because if you're able to just manage that messaging that comes from within, whether you're speaking for an organization, whether you're speaking for yourself, have you're able to take yourself out of that and put yourself in that empathic position of what is the receiver going to think about this when I get that?
00:35:00:17 - 00:35:44:15
Michael David Davis
Yeah. And to add, you got to remember, it's not how you expect the receiver to receive that information. How will the receiver that is getting this, receiving that actually act, how is their personal that he's going to react to this. Yeah. Not the way that I want you do right. Absolutely. And I think to me if you again you know at the time like this but if you can do that for 30 seconds or if you're prepping something that you feel is urgent that needs to go out, walk away, like you said, get get into a different headspace, maybe this is the time that you go for a walk.
00:35:44:15 - 00:36:16:14
Michael David Davis
Maybe this is the time that you do one of those little physical stretches. Or maybe this is the time that you take the firebreak that Nicole also feels is part of these on the counts. Yeah, it does count. Shrink. Fair enough. If you come back and that urgency still seems like it is there, then is that message only an unbiased, urgent call that is appropriate for what's happening at that time?
00:36:16:14 - 00:36:17:08
Nicole Davis
Does that make sense?
00:36:18:06 - 00:36:29:17
Michael David Davis
Does it? I want to know who else does that makes sense. Yeah. Very curious. Yeah, but is that a good way to kind of wrap that up and think about it?
00:36:30:10 - 00:36:57:00
Nicole Davis
Yeah, I think, you know, there was one last little nugget that we wanted to talk about here, and so I think we talked about the pushing forward of information, right. Of like reading before you react. I think the other piece around communication is not just your communication, but how you get others to communicate and how you receive that information and pull that out of other people.
00:36:57:12 - 00:37:26:16
Nicole Davis
And I think, you know, we've both over the years coached a lot of salespeople, a lot of a lot of teams on how to have engaging conversations. And to me, it always just comes down to being naturally curious, you know, and and asking you can have your list of questions that you want to ask someone, especially in like a sales setting or when you're having a first meeting with a client and kind of trying to understand the scope and exactly what the expectations are, You can have a list of questions.
00:37:26:16 - 00:37:50:02
Nicole Davis
You can have your questioning palette that you want to touch on a couple different areas. But the other day you're going to be able to build that stronger relationship. You're going to be able to really get to the bottom of whatever it is by just being naturally curious and just asking questions that are interesting to you, right? Because that lets the other person know you actually care that you are engaged.
00:37:50:09 - 00:38:16:17
Nicole Davis
Right. And it gets you some of those little tidbits or some nuance that you might not have gotten to otherwise. If you feel like you have to kind of stick to this script of, well, first I ask this and then I ask that. So I think that's that's great for that initial conversation, but then also moving that relationship forward, you know, just always kind of checking in and being naturally curious.
00:38:16:17 - 00:38:35:09
Nicole Davis
I think that is why part of the reason why I'm so direct with my communication is because I just want to know. Yeah, I just want to know, like how you doing I care about you and, you know, are you feeling okay? Is this is the way we're conducting this meeting, working for you? Are there still answers that you have or some answers that you have only so questions that you have.
00:38:35:20 - 00:38:36:17
Michael David Davis
That made sense to me?
00:38:36:17 - 00:38:50:01
Nicole Davis
That's great. But I. I think that being naturally curious is a really big part of empathy. And that's, you know, a straight shot to to building those strong relationships with others.
00:38:50:17 - 00:38:55:17
Michael David Davis
Yeah. And I feel like I want to wrap this up in a simple, simple way of saying, remember, we're all human.
00:38:55:22 - 00:38:56:06
Nicole Davis
Yeah.
00:38:57:00 - 00:39:24:02
Michael David Davis
We all again have a lot of external things happening around us. And so remember, when you are doing any type of communication and to whomever that might be, they're human as well. And even if they're not human, if you talk to your plants, it's already scientifically proven. I don't have a source, but it's out there. Do it with all those search engines that are in your little fingertips or on your fingertips at your fingertips.
00:39:24:02 - 00:39:28:23
Michael David Davis
All those things. Yeah, I know. Here we go. I'm just going to wrap this up quickly. Okay? Just going to say.
00:39:28:23 - 00:39:29:13
Nicole Davis
Famous last.
00:39:29:13 - 00:39:51:05
Michael David Davis
Words. Be human. Be human. That's all it takes. Yeah. We'll talk next week. Oh, Nicole, I love doing this with you. It's so much fun. We're back. Okay.
00:39:52:07 - 00:39:53:16
Nicole Davis
Oh, Nicole. Oh.
00:39:56:03 - 00:39:57:03
Michael David Davis
I can't wait to see.
00:39:57:04 - 00:39:58:15
Nicole Davis
You know.
00:39:58:15 - 00:39:59:15
Michael David Davis
We did it. Now we can do it.
00:39:59:15 - 00:40:02:00
Nicole Davis
Now. Start over. Please, please.
