00:00:00:07 - 00:00:26:04
Michael David Davis
Welcome. It is my thought partner, and today's episode is about self-care in the workplace. I thought you were going to join me on that. Sorry. All right, So. All right, let's. I was giving up. All right. Giving a space for the intro.

00:00:26:04 - 00:00:35:15
Nicole Davis
Giving space? Yeah, that. That's an important part of mental health in the workplace, I think. Giving space. Yeah. So that was. Yeah, that was a nice unintentional.

00:00:35:16 - 00:00:36:03
Michael David Davis
Yes.

00:00:36:05 - 00:00:38:06
Nicole Davis
Segue way. I'm here for.

00:00:38:06 - 00:00:39:04
Michael David Davis
It. Okay, good.

00:00:39:06 - 00:00:39:14
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:00:40:08 - 00:01:07:00
Michael David Davis
All right. So what, we're going to talk about self care in the workplace. That is a whole big Pandora's box can of worms. It is a lot of things, right? Yes. And I think that before we get too deep into anything, I want to just say, because I've been listening to your feedback per usual, that I came prepared with an agenda.

00:01:07:10 - 00:01:18:14
Michael David Davis
I have bullet points. We have quick segments to make this happen. So this is succinct and we're not going to have a long kiss goodnight. I mean, we might.

00:01:18:18 - 00:01:23:18
Nicole Davis
I don't think everyone that fully understands what the long Kiss goodnight concept is.

00:01:24:03 - 00:01:41:01
Michael David Davis
Yeah, well, you got to listen to that episode that just gives you a reason to listen to the other episodes. Okay, so today's agenda, we're going to be talking about beating the Sun Blues. That is not in a course favorite this time, but it is like the thing she struggles with a lot.

00:01:41:03 - 00:02:01:01
Nicole Davis
Listen, let's. Let's just call it at the beginning. Yeah. I struggle with all of this stuff a lot. Like I am a tightly wound person. I have been an anxious person since I was a very small person. So all of these things that we're talking about today are near and dear to my heart. And there are things that I personally am constantly working on.

00:02:01:01 - 00:02:18:23
Nicole Davis
So I would just like to put it out there from the beginning. Yeah, that I have a lot of experience in this space, personal and professional, but that this is also not meant to be preachy. Like these are things that we are all working on on a regular basis and I think should all work on on a regular basis.

00:02:18:23 - 00:02:21:11
Nicole Davis
But anyway, back to your agenda, man, because you made one.

00:02:21:11 - 00:02:41:01
Michael David Davis
Look, I know look, you're hitting it right on the head, too, because it's also not in place of like actual mental health care. These are just simple things that you can do to alleviate some of that stress you might be having in the workspace that are from external influences and of course, some of those little internal conflicts. So yeah, so being the Monday blues is part of it.

00:02:41:03 - 00:02:41:13
Nicole Davis
Sunday.

00:02:42:02 - 00:02:43:23
Michael David Davis
Well, yeah, Sunday blues. Sorry.

00:02:44:06 - 00:02:45:14
Nicole Davis
Yeah, but Monday motivation.

00:02:45:14 - 00:02:46:00
Michael David Davis
So that's going.

00:02:46:00 - 00:02:46:11
Nicole Davis
To get.

00:02:46:12 - 00:03:09:14
Michael David Davis
You into that. So yeah. Sun Blues Monday motivation and then talking about how to handle good leaders, bad leaders and managing up because whether you are unless even if you're the CEO of something, you're still speaking to somebody, right? You're still answering to somebody. Maybe it might be shareholders, it might be investors, but we all have a boss to some degree.

00:03:09:14 - 00:03:10:08
Michael David Davis
You're my boss.

00:03:11:04 - 00:03:14:07
Nicole Davis
Someday.

00:03:14:07 - 00:03:38:00
Michael David Davis
I can't manage up with Nick, so I gonna try. The other part of that is about it's about the physical part of this will be getting moving, right Getting out of your chair and like, what? Things that you can do to help that self care, because it's not just all mental does have to be physical about this and and in the course now this is my favorite boundaries and how to say no.

00:03:38:03 - 00:03:44:09
Michael David Davis
How do you say no to the people that are really taking advantage of you? And how do you identify that?

00:03:44:12 - 00:03:48:12
Nicole Davis
Right. My ultimate weakness, Yeah.

00:03:48:12 - 00:03:53:11
Michael David Davis
I mean, like if truth be told, I probably have made this agenda specific for Nick.

00:03:53:16 - 00:04:12:05
Nicole Davis
I was going to say, should I just sit back and listen this whole episode, I have nothing to contribute because I have no skills in any of these areas. I have skills, but all of these things are works in progress for me because I'm a pleaser. I want everyone to be happy and I want to meet everyone's needs.

00:04:12:05 - 00:04:35:11
Nicole Davis
Then I often don't meet my own needs as a result of that, which, you know, can wreak havoc on my personal life, can be really rough for my my partner and my my trust and friends and family. Right. Who sometimes carry the brunt of my frustration or exhaustion from other parts of life. So this is a good one.

00:04:35:16 - 00:04:44:17
Michael David Davis
Okay, So let's dive right into it. Right. So if we're talking about beating the Sun blues and actually if you don't know what the Sun blues are, I didn't even know until what used to.

00:04:45:02 - 00:04:46:19
Nicole Davis
You know, until I was like, well.

00:04:46:19 - 00:04:49:08
Michael David Davis
Because I didn't know that there was there was something defined, what.

00:04:49:08 - 00:04:51:19
Nicole Davis
I call them. I call them sun scary.

00:04:51:19 - 00:04:53:16
Michael David Davis
Or sun Scaries. Yeah, that's it.

00:04:53:19 - 00:05:23:04
Nicole Davis
Yeah. Well, I mean, Sun Blues can also be the thing, right? But it's that growing anxiety on Sun Day. Like, gosh, sometimes it's sun late morning into Sunday afternoon and as you like, hit Sunday evening. It's just that little ball of nerves in your stomach about what's coming tomorrow and maybe what you are and aren't prepared to deal with, or just maybe what you're just generally anxious about dealing with or just dreading going back to work honestly.

00:05:23:18 - 00:05:35:05
Michael David Davis
So technically that sun can be a sun for somebody else. Oh yeah. A different day though. It's just the term of that feeling that you're typically having due to going back to man.

00:05:35:06 - 00:05:50:08
Nicole Davis
You've been living your best life on the weekend or your days off whenever those are, you know, or you have just been able to kind of compartmentalize and not think about all of those work things for whatever time frame. And now, you know, you're going to have to start thinking.

00:05:50:09 - 00:06:00:12
Michael David Davis
About putting off those week, those Friday emails that you got at like 3 p.m. or those texts from your boss that are like, I need you to look at this for Monday. You've been totally.

00:06:01:00 - 00:06:24:03
Nicole Davis
Or it's just that feeling of dread, like you said, you know that, gosh, that is just not how I want to spend my day tomorrow. And so, you know, it can, depending on, I think, the relationship that you have with your workplace, with your work in general, with your supervisor or manager, or just kind of your general workload that can the causes for that can be different.

00:06:24:10 - 00:06:30:17
Nicole Davis
But typically, I think the result or the way that it manifests is the same. And just kind of that that anxiety.

00:06:30:17 - 00:06:50:15
Michael David Davis
Okay. So I didn't know what it was until you mentioned it. So I'm assuming the rest of the world, you probably a lot smarter than me. You probably already know about this, that you probably read 14 articles on the Harvard Review and you know these things. But if somebody doesn't know about these, what's like, what is something what is one or two things that they can identify and go, oh, you know what?

00:06:50:15 - 00:06:51:14
Michael David Davis
You're right. I do have.

00:06:51:14 - 00:06:54:00
Nicole Davis
That like anxiety in general or the sun. Scary.

00:06:54:05 - 00:06:55:19
Michael David Davis
Well, the sun scares, which I actually.

00:06:55:21 - 00:07:14:08
Nicole Davis
Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like, you know, we've we've covered it somewhat quickly. It, it it's just kind of that feeling of anxiety or that pit in your stomach or having those growing feelings of anxiety or worry or, you know, dread might be a bit dramatic. But I'm sure for some people it feels that way. Yeah. About heading back to work.

00:07:14:11 - 00:07:30:15
Michael David Davis
Okay, well then, I guess so. Here's where I kick in, because, you know, Nicole's the positive person, but I'm definitely probably the more motivational person. Like, I can get into your head and be like, Yeah, rah, rah, rah, rah, let's go. And Nicole is just always like, Yeah, this is a good thing. And I'm like, Oh, but it's not a good thing.

00:07:30:15 - 00:08:10:23
Michael David Davis
This is troublesome. So this is going to go into like what I think about on Monday. I, I've said this before, I love Mondays because for me and this is part of this, right? Like it's the mindset switch for a monday. If I'm going into somewhere to an office or a workspace or meeting with a client on a monday, I've got the entire week to work on or figure out what the project is or what the things that we need to work on and develop or just I have an entire week to get things done where I think on Friday I start to have dreads because I'm like, Oh my gosh, I don't have any

00:08:10:23 - 00:08:38:01
Michael David Davis
more days left in the week and the week coming in. I just don't I want to go into the weekend and not have to think about what I've got to do. So but I think I'm the weird one, right? Like, I've actually actually had a conversation with somebody earlier this morning who was like, you know, Michael David Davis, you are you are a unique individual like everyone else on a Friday is like, yeah, the weekend.

00:08:38:01 - 00:08:42:15
Michael David Davis
Cool. We're getting ready to go to a show. We're going to go see our favorite band. We're going to go to the brewery.

00:08:42:23 - 00:09:02:00
Nicole Davis
Right? But like I get it right that you're kind of dreading that maybe you haven't completed everything that you get to do during the week, right? Or you start to have that. I think for me, on a Friday in the afternoon, it's like, Oh my gosh, yes, I do still have these things on my list. I haven't done them yet.

00:09:02:00 - 00:09:19:03
Nicole Davis
Okay, now let's get serious about time blocking or whatever, right. To kind of finish out the week strong. But I think, you know, there are some other things, if you look at that flip side of kind of avoiding the Sunday scaries or, you know, gosh, it could be the Wednesday night scaries right. It could be any time, right.

00:09:19:03 - 00:09:33:19
Nicole Davis
When you just feel like you're not totally ready to go back to work the next day. And some strategies that you can use either in those moments when you're feeling that way or, you know, kind of to prep yourself ahead of time or to recover once you start your Monday motivation.

00:09:34:01 - 00:09:50:00
Michael David Davis
Yeah, I think, you know, for me that Monday, the first thing I do and again what we've said is for people don't understand that three hour meditation part for me in a day. But I do just think about that moment. I am just taking that deep breath into the nose, blowing out through the mouth. We should try.

00:09:53:21 - 00:09:54:12
Nicole Davis
To feel better.

00:09:54:15 - 00:09:56:08
Michael David Davis
I do. Why don't you grace with me?

00:09:56:10 - 00:09:56:19
Nicole Davis
I feel great.

00:09:57:03 - 00:10:18:20
Michael David Davis
Oh, my gosh. It's a craziness. But I had to take that moment to be present so that I can actually just remind myself the worst case scenario that something is going to happen is that it doesn't get done. And somebody probably might be upset that it didn't happen. But the great thing is.

00:10:19:12 - 00:10:24:18
Nicole Davis
Like I'm sweating literally, like listening to you talk about this scenario.

00:10:25:07 - 00:10:26:08
Michael David Davis
Because I know.

00:10:26:08 - 00:10:27:05
Nicole Davis
If it doesn't get done.

00:10:27:05 - 00:10:36:09
Michael David Davis
Right, if it doesn't. But again, the worst case scenario, you just say, hey, you know what? I did not get this finished. I but I'm working on now. This is my top priority at this moment.

00:10:36:11 - 00:11:03:23
Nicole Davis
Okay. But also that in and of itself, yes. Is an anxiety management strategy. Right? So not only are you managing your stakeholders in that moment by communicating and saying, hey, here's the situation, etc., but you're also then able to kind of like put your own anxiety aside a bit by dealing with it head on. So instead of just sitting there going, Oh my gosh, I didn't get it done, I didn't get it done, I've got it right, it's deal with it.

00:11:04:06 - 00:11:26:06
Nicole Davis
And you and I have talked about that on a personal level as well, Right. Like just deal with the thing that is giving you angst and then you can deal with the consequence instead of creating the story in your head. I mean, that's the thing with me all the time as I love to tell myself stories about what that other person might be thinking or how they might be feeling or what they're doing while I'm trying to figure this out.

00:11:26:06 - 00:11:35:21
Nicole Davis
Right. You know, don't try to make up stories for other people. Get the story from the source, and that way you can kind of alleviate some of that. I think the other thing. Sorry.

00:11:35:22 - 00:11:36:23
Michael David Davis
No, go ahead.

00:11:37:06 - 00:11:56:16
Nicole Davis
I think the other thing is kind of figuring out on the front end and on the back end, what are strategies that you can use to kind of prevent or heal in some of those anxious moments? So I think we've talked about it before, about kind of setting up an action list for yourself for the following day or for the following week before you wrap up that day.

00:11:56:18 - 00:12:13:03
Nicole Davis
That can be super helpful. So that past you has already done you a solid when you walk in on Monday morning and you know what to do to start. I think one thing that I do sometimes on Sunday nights is I'll just take 30 minutes to look at my calendar for the following day and that really does help me calm down quite a bit.

00:12:14:05 - 00:12:30:23
Nicole Davis
Okay. I've got until ten tomorrow to kind of get myself situated and I'll have a meeting until ten, and then I've got X, Y, and Z to take care of. And so, you know, sometimes just kind of reviewing my plan from Friday and looking at the following day can really help to, to quiet those Scaries.

00:12:31:04 - 00:12:58:04
Michael David Davis
No, and it's a great idea. And I think, you know, one of the things that we can do in the workforce, whether you are a leader or whether you are, you know, a just going into the job and getting it done, I think as a leader, you can set yourself up and your staff with success by not putting that kind of that really motivation or not that excuse me, not the motivation, but that scary part of Monday.

00:12:58:04 - 00:13:13:18
Michael David Davis
Like Monday, we're going to come in, we're going to have a team meeting and we're going to do this and we're going to do it like that, where you actually freaked out about going in on a monday because you know that there's so much pressure built up and you know that you've got to have to explain what you've already kind of forgot about.

00:13:13:18 - 00:13:36:19
Michael David Davis
Right? On Friday, I actually saw something from another leader on LinkedIn who said that they actually like Friday meetings because then they can just wrap everything up on the Friday and they get with their teammates. They're going into the weekend free of the mind, knowing that once Monday starts, the next follow up meeting is going to be that Friday, which I thought genius like again, I wouldn't even thought of.

00:13:36:20 - 00:14:01:01
Nicole Davis
I love that, too. And you know, I so when I was running standups with a team in a previous role, we always had our signups at 11 a.m. on Monday. Just so that we could have a little bit of time to like, get in, get back in the groove. You don't have to worry so much about, you know, walking in at 9 a.m. and being ready to go and like 100% right out of the gate.

00:14:01:10 - 00:14:12:02
Michael David Davis
Yeah, I want to have time to talk about whatever cool show is on the air streaming service and like catch up into that and then get fired up about. Yeah, the plotline was horrible. It was great. And then I'll dive into work.

00:14:12:05 - 00:14:12:12
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:14:12:14 - 00:14:35:15
Michael David Davis
Notice I didn't see any shows, so this show will be relevant all the time. But in case you're wondering, Last of US is what's popular right now. All right. But I think if you encouraging employees. Yeah. If you're a leader to give them that free space given that opportunity, then that might alleviate the Sunday scaries to give you a better motivational Monday mindset and then again for yourself, ask for it.

00:14:35:16 - 00:14:57:13
Michael David Davis
Right? Like just kind of ask like, Hey, can I have some space for this time so I can prepare for the week for the asks of things that you might give up? I mean, do we wrap that good or well, do we wrap that well? Yeah. She's a better gift wrapper than I am as well. It's I just I'm like corners tape.

00:14:57:13 - 00:15:03:06
Michael David Davis
It's done. It's like with this one. Okay, Nicole, let's get to the next.

00:15:04:01 - 00:15:31:14
Nicole Davis
I think we actually started talking about the next point, which was around leadership and kind of leading teams towards self-care as well, and how you can really ensure that whether you are whether you have direct reports or whether you're working within more of a matrix organization and have a larger peer group, how can you really encourage and support some of those self-care practices within the office, within the virtual workplace, whatever the case may be?

00:15:31:22 - 00:15:59:03
Michael David Davis
Yeah. And like and kind of managing up or asking for what you want, You know, one of the things I think that will really help you manage your own self care is you kind of have to demand that respect in your workplace, right? You almost have to be able to build those strong connections with the people around you and build those relationships so that when you do have an ask, they understand why you have that ask, right?

00:15:59:05 - 00:16:08:20
Michael David Davis
If we have bad relationships with people, be it a boss or a coworker of course is going to add to the Sunday's. Yeah, yeah. Dreading to have to.

00:16:08:22 - 00:16:09:17
Nicole Davis
Absolutely.

00:16:09:21 - 00:16:12:10
Michael David Davis
With this person in a meeting or.

00:16:12:14 - 00:16:12:23
Nicole Davis
Write.

00:16:13:02 - 00:16:30:02
Michael David Davis
You know explain to them and no matter how great what I have created, they're just going to tear it to pieces. We all work with people like that. Yeah. And so, like, I think being able to talk to them and say, you know what you got to say, I've had enough. I'm done with you. I'm getting over this.

00:16:30:02 - 00:16:53:22
Michael David Davis
But you can definitely ask for that meeting and just say, what can we do to move forward? What can we do to continue this working relationship? That it won't be harmful to me right? If you're coming from the me space, yeah, you're not accusing that person and maybe they are that your frenemy at work. Maybe they are the one doing everything to prevent you from being promoted.

00:16:54:09 - 00:17:12:07
Michael David Davis
But you don't want to empower them by giving them that knowledge. But at least just say to yourself, say to them, like, what can I do to help you so that we can get over this, this ickiness that I feel so that I can be more productive in my role. So that will help you be more productive in your role.

00:17:12:07 - 00:17:38:21
Nicole Davis
Yeah, well, and let's be clear, it's not always about conflict, right? I mean, I think you're talking about scenarios where you have a horrible boss or you have a colleague that you're having conflict with, and that's not always what it's about. It's sometimes it's about finding alignment in finding your language with the people that you work with so that you can connect and understand each other's needs when it comes to self-care, you know, I think that we all have different thresholds for stress.

00:17:38:21 - 00:18:02:16
Nicole Davis
We all have different coping skills and abilities to kind of navigate the waves that that are headed our way in our personal lives and in our work lives. And you've got to be responsible for navigating that and figuring out what are those best connection points with the people that you work with. And I think that the like, lovely nugget of what you were just saying is the what's in it for them aspect.

00:18:02:16 - 00:18:22:16
Nicole Davis
And that works really well obviously with clients and other stakeholders that you're working with, but also with your peer group and with your leaders and managers. Understanding, you know, what are they hoping to get out of your work, what do they need from you so that they can feel successful and kind of opening up those pathways of communication can make a really big difference.

00:18:22:16 - 00:18:24:21
Nicole Davis
And I think that's what you were what you're alluding to.

00:18:24:21 - 00:18:36:04
Michael David Davis
She's always more succinct and, you know, she's eloquent with the words. It is like she is a figure skater and ice. And I am like the guy who is just the sled racer, as I say.

00:18:36:04 - 00:18:37:17
Nicole Davis
Are you driving the Zamboni? Yeah.

00:18:37:17 - 00:18:57:16
Michael David Davis
I'm only trying to pirouette on the ice with the Zamboni, you definitely again, hit it on the head, as always. And I think, you know, one of the best strategies that I have found success with and that I think and again, I didn't create these ideas. These are things that I've learned just through time is that it always starts with finding the common connection, right?

00:18:57:18 - 00:19:13:15
Michael David Davis
If that common connection is absolutely something you cannot find within the workspace. And what is it outside the workspace? Yeah, I always joke around, we're all human. We all breathe the same air and we all, when we get done with our food, it goes home right? So those are common. We get it.

00:19:13:19 - 00:19:15:08
Nicole Davis
Right. You move along the way.

00:19:15:09 - 00:19:41:10
Michael David Davis
And there's a common. But when you're able to like, find something to connect with, then you're able to like kind of even get into more of showing the appreciation for that person, Right? Yeah. And definitely, even if it is the hardest thing for you to do, make sure you try to show that appreciation. Because think about it, if it's hard for you to show appreciation to someone that is challenging you or that is there, that's probably because you're not feeling appreciated yourself, right?

00:19:41:10 - 00:19:59:08
Michael David Davis
So sometimes one of us has to take that first step forward to be able to say, You know what? Hey, thanks. I really appreciate what you're trying to do for me. I'm not really getting it, but like, I want to get there. So can you help me understand what I need to do to make this work? And I think that really gets a long way, right?

00:19:59:08 - 00:20:25:10
Michael David Davis
So showing that appreciation, being able to, like, seek out those common connections and again, more importantly, all this is just because of active listening when you guys are actually talking with people or when you are having those conversations, make sure you're engaged. Because if you're not engaged, what happens? You're losing interest. They're losing interest and they're like, you're just full of B.S. and I want to get this wrapped up.

00:20:26:06 - 00:20:51:00
Nicole Davis
Well, and I would say most people, not all people a lot of people do really like to talk and they especially like to talk about themselves. So, you know, I think it is important to engage those active listening skills to make sure that you're visually engaged, You're nodding, you're making eye contact. Sometimes that can be challenging virtually, Right?

00:20:51:07 - 00:21:12:04
Nicole Davis
Making those good listening noises. Mm hmm. Asking questions about what they've just said, being able to rephrase back to the person, what they said to check for understanding. I think the other thing attached to this is that you can learn and navigate over time who those folks are, that you can also then share back some of those things.

00:21:12:04 - 00:21:34:09
Nicole Davis
I think we've all had that experience where, you know, you you think that you've made that mutual connection with someone and then all of a sudden something gets kind of turned against you or something gets used against you later. I think those are those are those times that you just continue to listen. I know I had a colleague where I thought we were like really tight friends.

00:21:34:09 - 00:22:02:19
Nicole Davis
This was way back in the day, back back in the early twenties. I thought we were 19. 20. Yeah. Here I you know, I thought we were really good friends. Then all of a sudden, some of those little, like, personal nuggets that I had shared at work kind of got put back against me. And so I learned that that was a relationship where I really just needed to listen and so, you know, when we came in on Monday and we're kind of sharing, like you said, Oh, what happened this weekend, what did you watch for?

00:22:02:23 - 00:22:25:02
Nicole Davis
But I asked a lot of questions and I did not volunteer a lot of information. And that really helped me in that relationship, you know, And I had established trust from that person because I was so engaged and asked them many questions, all those things. But then I didn't have to make myself vulnerable to someone who had already proven to not be a great ally when when it came down to it.

00:22:25:12 - 00:22:45:13
Michael David Davis
Yeah. And, you know, again, this is not new information. Dale Carnegie with his book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. That's that's probably one of the tenets that you you see over and over and again that book is people like to talk about themselves almost all the time. I'm definitely one of those humans. I try to practice the whole I will, said two eyes, one mouth.

00:22:45:13 - 00:22:51:01
Michael David Davis
That's not it. Two ears, one mouth, listen more speak less. And you know it does.

00:22:51:10 - 00:23:00:18
Nicole Davis
Let's like say that all the way through. So you have two ears in one mouth for a reason. Yes. Because you should listen twice as much as you speak.

00:23:00:23 - 00:23:05:10
Michael David Davis
This is why I love you. Just. It just works so well.

00:23:05:10 - 00:23:19:17
Nicole Davis
But I just I want to do, like, pause on that for a second because everyone may not know that reference. Fair enough. But it is it is a good one. I think the the one over end rule is also good. So you think about how many people are sitting in a meeting or how many people are in a room.

00:23:19:23 - 00:23:51:21
Nicole Davis
If you have four people in that meeting, you should plan on speaking one fourth of the time, right? So one over end is one over. However many people are there. I think a lot of people also like totally cruise by that rule. And we all know those people right, that I'm that will dominate a conversation. You know personally I do like I like to talk, but I like to sit back and listen and really understand how people think and then insert myself kind of thoughtfully.

00:23:52:02 - 00:24:05:14
Nicole Davis
We all know people that are not like that. So I think if we can generally have that one over end rule, it kind of helps those those meetings and conversation can go a bit more smoothly and have a more equitable share of the conversation.

00:24:05:14 - 00:24:21:21
Michael David Davis
Well, and again, it goes back to the mantra I live by for so long as the confidence not dominance. And I have always tended to speak a lot, sometimes in rooms, because I feel like I'm trying to make up for a void that I may not get to. Again, as you know, Nicole is much more succinct and more eloquent and just.

00:24:22:04 - 00:24:38:07
Michael David Davis
She's so much more wordsmith than I am. And I like to I like to tell stories and I like to ramble. I like to make these really weird connections, don't tend to make sense of most people, but in the end it does. But it takes me an hour to get to that, right? Nicole can do that in 10 minutes.

00:24:38:12 - 00:24:58:08
Michael David Davis
So, you know, I think to and we take this away from us and out of ourselves and into the leaders that we work with. I think leaders, if you're out there and you're listening and or you are that person, you need to set up that encouragement in the workspace so that everybody has the ability to build relationships with their coworkers.

00:24:58:08 - 00:25:29:11
Michael David Davis
Right? Hoping that opening the door to each person don't put them in their own little silos, don't keep them separated. I know it's hard. Even if a lot of us are doing remote work, we all have zoom fatigue or some sort of meetings, fatigue, teams fatigue. But in those things, try to have meetings that are outside of work related events so that you can be connected and that you can get with each other and that you can learn again that ultimately we are just human beings that need and thrive for positive relationships in our lives.

00:25:29:11 - 00:25:39:23
Michael David Davis
And I think that gives a really good jumpstart and to giving you such a good mental health state. Yeah, in your workforce environment.

00:25:40:00 - 00:25:55:14
Nicole Davis
Yeah. Or I would say even build that into the agenda of meetings. You know that the first 5 minutes we all know we're going to share information and we're just, we're going to have a casual check in or catch up at the beginning of a meeting or we'll do that at the end of the meeting if we have time.

00:25:55:14 - 00:26:21:11
Nicole Davis
Right? But I think establishing that that's what you're going to do, I like let's be clear, there's nothing more annoying to me than when I think we're coming to a meeting and we're getting right to business and people just kind of like ramble on and on about random things forever. But if it's intentional, if it's this is what we're doing as our team, because we want to continue to build our team camaraderie and our connections to one another that that to me has a different purpose and then a different feeling about it as well.

00:26:22:04 - 00:26:41:00
Michael David Davis
And it really works well when you're trying it in a podcast as well. If you have a direct message to end it, then your wife is happy with you. But that being said, we're going to come back the second half and we're going to dive deeper into the physicality of your self-care and how that will improve the workspace.

00:26:41:00 - 00:26:48:01
Michael David Davis
And then also again, my favorite part saying no, saying no. So let's balance.

00:26:48:02 - 00:26:49:06
Nicole Davis
Less recording.

00:26:49:18 - 00:26:51:00
Michael David Davis
And recording.

00:26:52:13 - 00:26:57:17
Nicole Davis
Both of us our best, our best selves at this moment.

00:26:57:17 - 00:27:16:22
Michael David Davis
I'll just have fun. Welcome back. This is the second half and I am just practicing what I preach. Nicole Uh huh, that's what I'm doing. And if you're not able to see me because, you know, this is the auditory experience, I am rolling Mind.

00:27:16:22 - 00:27:19:00
Nicole Davis
Sitter Consider yourself lucky. How about that?

00:27:19:00 - 00:27:26:20
Michael David Davis
I mean, look, some people might say this is how this guy gets his wonderful hair to stand so tall. You know, this is this secret. Yes.

00:27:27:02 - 00:27:28:07
Nicole Davis
It's just genetics, I think.

00:27:28:14 - 00:27:31:09
Michael David Davis
I mean, and product is product product.

00:27:31:14 - 00:27:33:02
Nicole Davis
A wicked blow out.

00:27:33:08 - 00:27:44:15
Michael David Davis
Wicked blow out. Yeah. Look. All right. The physicality of like, the ability to give yourself some self care in your workspace starts with movement, huh?

00:27:45:06 - 00:27:46:11
Nicole Davis
Do you feel so much better?

00:27:46:18 - 00:27:51:21
Michael David Davis
Yeah. I'm like, Oh, man, I just. Yeah, my neck is good and my shoulders are good.

00:27:52:02 - 00:27:53:00
Nicole Davis
So happy for you.

00:27:53:01 - 00:28:09:10
Michael David Davis
Yeah, I just. Oh, my gosh. Tangent real quick. Only because it is relevant. Yes, I started, like, doing this upper body strength training and I and I got. Let me take it easy. I'm going to do this beginner level stuff because like, where.

00:28:09:10 - 00:28:09:19
Nicole Davis
Is this.

00:28:09:19 - 00:28:11:13
Michael David Davis
Going? I need to ease into it.

00:28:11:14 - 00:28:12:06
Nicole Davis
Sure, man.

00:28:12:06 - 00:28:35:06
Michael David Davis
Oh man. The beginner stuff was its kick in my bottom like £5 weights and like a lot of this rapid movement and I am sore. I just noticed that with my neck rolling around. So my neck rolling around actually just ease that tension I had moving around. Such weights were Why? I don't know. How come I'm so such I don't know what happened to me.

00:28:35:06 - 00:28:44:04
Michael David Davis
But anyway, that being said, I'm taking care of myself outside of the outside raiment, which helps me translate that inside of the work environment. I would.

00:28:44:04 - 00:28:47:17
Nicole Davis
Love to call that a full circle moment, but I'm not really sure I know that's what happened.

00:28:47:17 - 00:28:48:13
Michael David Davis
There. Again, I struggle.

00:28:48:13 - 00:28:51:03
Nicole Davis
I feel like that was just a humblebrag that you're working out.

00:28:51:13 - 00:28:53:13
Michael David Davis
You made it £5 weights. Who's humble?

00:28:53:13 - 00:28:54:23
Nicole Davis
Bragging about fairness?

00:28:55:04 - 00:29:06:02
Michael David Davis
Yeah. Now, if I sent you £50 weights, then that's different story. Okay, But you know, it is about being physical in the workplace and how can you be physical in the workspace, especially if you're type.

00:29:06:02 - 00:29:07:21
Nicole Davis
Something physical in the works.

00:29:08:07 - 00:29:10:19
Michael David Davis
You don't think that is that's look.

00:29:11:03 - 00:29:29:03
Nicole Davis
I'm I'm seeing like Olivia Newton-John with like her. Correct. But there was obviously like an undertone to that video in that. Right. I mean that in that song let's stop saying like let's get physical in the workspace because that feels like a lawsuit harassment.

00:29:29:03 - 00:29:32:03
Michael David Davis
I'm not talking about act the movie 9 to 5 with Dolly Parton or anything.

00:29:32:07 - 00:29:32:15
Nicole Davis
Okay.

00:29:32:21 - 00:29:34:01
Michael David Davis
But so cool.

00:29:34:08 - 00:29:39:15
Nicole Davis
So maybe okay. Right. So maybe let's clarify what we're talking about here.

00:29:39:15 - 00:29:40:09
Michael David Davis
Please help me out.

00:29:40:16 - 00:29:44:13
Nicole Davis
Oh, okay. So I'll do it. Yeah, I'll be here for.

00:29:44:13 - 00:29:45:01
Michael David Davis
Another half.

00:29:45:01 - 00:30:09:05
Nicole Davis
Hour. Correct. So we're just hoping that incorporating movement into your day, whether it's, you know, an interesting neck roll, whether it's just getting up and going for a walk. Just a couple of ideas to keep yourself moving because, yes, we are all living far more sedentary lives than we ever have before. Part of that is obviously due to the fact that a lot of us are working in offices or are working remotely, etc..

00:30:09:12 - 00:30:20:19
Nicole Davis
So what are ways that you can do that and ensure that you have the the opportunity for movement and physical wellness to help impact your mental wellness and your self-care throughout the workday?

00:30:20:19 - 00:30:39:11
Michael David Davis
Yeah, if your time blocking, okay, maybe you're not time walking, but if you know that you're about to have a meeting, I think by default mechanism, a lot of people are like, Oh my gosh, I have to get up, I need to use the restroom and I've got to do this before I get any. That's that is movement, but that is not intentional movement.

00:30:39:11 - 00:30:45:03
Michael David Davis
So I want to be clear to that this is intentional physical movement to actually bring back.

00:30:45:03 - 00:30:48:00
Nicole Davis
So you're saying bio brakes don't count as movement.

00:30:48:05 - 00:30:49:05
Michael David Davis
It counts as.

00:30:49:07 - 00:30:51:05
Nicole Davis
Movement, like not moving all day.

00:30:51:05 - 00:31:12:16
Michael David Davis
Yeah, well, right. This is where we're getting into the self-care part of it, right? This is where I feel like I can be struggling a little bit. So it is about the self-care. So self care, ultimately you have to have the intent and the identification of it happening. If you're doing this on a default and like this is part of what you do, it's not really it's not really that right.

00:31:12:16 - 00:31:13:18
Michael David Davis
Does that make sense?

00:31:13:18 - 00:31:14:14
Nicole Davis
I mean, it does.

00:31:14:17 - 00:31:38:08
Michael David Davis
Okay. So if you're going to get up, though, and use the restroom, then incorporate for 30 seconds some stretching right? You can just bend over, try to touch your toes. Now, don't do this in the restroom. Someone might think you're weird. Maybe you can do it in the restroom. I don't know. You have your own little restroom at home, but if you're just standing up, you're getting back to the desk or you're getting up from the desk stretch, right?

00:31:38:08 - 00:31:53:14
Michael David Davis
Like, take the actual moment again, breathe with intention so that you are present and that you are refocusing your mind. You're giving your mind the relaxation. This is just as much as almost, if not more for your mind than it is your physical body.

00:31:53:14 - 00:32:10:01
Nicole Davis
Okay, But I'm going to push you and say that just because you don't. So I. I hear what you're saying and I agree with you ish that there is value in putting intention behind your movement. But I also think there's value in having sneaky movement as well, Right?

00:32:10:08 - 00:32:12:14
Michael David Davis
So we can't say, let's get physical.

00:32:12:14 - 00:32:13:16
Nicole Davis
I know this is bad, but.

00:32:13:18 - 00:32:14:18
Michael David Davis
We can say.

00:32:14:22 - 00:32:15:18
Nicole Davis
Yes. We can say.

00:32:16:00 - 00:32:18:16
Michael David Davis
You know, that sounds dirty.

00:32:19:18 - 00:32:25:15
Nicole Davis
I think sneaky movement is fine. So sneaky movement is instead of.

00:32:25:19 - 00:32:27:10
Michael David Davis
Having to relax.

00:32:27:10 - 00:32:46:16
Nicole Davis
Instead of having a zone with your manager saying, hey, can I call you on the phone instead and plugging in your headphones, your earbuds or your pods or whatever, right. And going for a walk or even, you know, going for walks around your house or asking you, can we do a walking meeting today instead? Right. And so you're walking.

00:32:46:16 - 00:33:03:04
Nicole Davis
Maybe you bring your phone with you so you can take notes and in an app or something like that. But to me, yes, I'm not taking a moment just to kind of decompress, but I know that all those little things are kind of going into my movement bank for the day, Right. And that's better than doing nothing.

00:33:03:08 - 00:33:06:09
Michael David Davis
Yeah, I really I really like that. But I will. I will push you back.

00:33:07:00 - 00:33:09:12
Nicole Davis
I'm gonna fight this shoot back.

00:33:09:14 - 00:33:23:19
Michael David Davis
Okay. But because you, you, you said let's you, you had the ask and you said, can we have a walking meeting. So you were putting the intent there. Sure. And so your intention was to physically get to doing so. Right. Right.

00:33:23:20 - 00:33:45:01
Nicole Davis
I guess I'm just saying that like not everyone has the the liberty or the flexibility to be like, Oh, I'm going to take 10 minutes for myself and do deep breathing and stretch and bubble up. So if you don't have like the privilege or flexibility to do that within your workday, are there some other permissions that you can ask or ways that you can kind of sneak some of that in?

00:33:45:07 - 00:34:10:05
Nicole Davis
Because that physical movement and that reset is good for your mind? And that's that's the whole point. Like, yes, there is a physical component here that we're trying to take care of, but it's also, you know, you cannot you physically can, but you should not sit at your desk in work, work, work, work, work for hours straight because your productivity goes down, The quality of your work decreases kind of the longer you go without one of those breaks.

00:34:10:05 - 00:34:32:11
Michael David Davis
Yeah, and we definitely talked about this with the Technology and Tools episode. Where can we use things like Pomodoro, which is just a little timer that's in that the it's, it's an extension of Chrome that ultimately the method is 25 minutes of focused work, 5 minutes off. You do that for times and then the long break is a 15 minute break.

00:34:32:11 - 00:34:51:18
Michael David Davis
Right. And so if if you're not taking those breaks, because I know we both tend to do this and I will actually cheat the system sometimes I'm not being sneaky at all. I'm actually robbing myself of that mental health that that good clarity for me because I'm like, let me just I'm just going to get I just need to finish this.

00:34:52:02 - 00:34:53:16
Michael David Davis
I'm just going to go take me two more minutes.

00:34:53:16 - 00:34:59:13
Nicole Davis
We're not going to do this break. I'm just going to keep working through. Yeah. And it actually becomes an issue. And it.

00:34:59:13 - 00:35:00:01
Michael David Davis
Does.

00:35:00:01 - 00:35:03:22
Nicole Davis
Yeah. In your quality of work does go down when you do that so well.

00:35:03:22 - 00:35:26:11
Michael David Davis
And I find myself typically by like two or three and this has been this way my entire life, this is this is also why I've had to incorporate adding the physicality into my work space because two or 3:00 I am I am toast. Yeah, I am saying the out I am. It is not even that I'm intentionally being disinterested.

00:35:26:11 - 00:35:30:22
Michael David Davis
I have just lost all mental capacity at that point after noon.

00:35:30:23 - 00:35:45:00
Nicole Davis
Can I just tell you though, I think that we're hardwired that way as kids, because if you think about it, that's typically around the time that school gets out. And those are our formative years. This is totally my own silly little theory, but like, not wrong. But first.

00:35:45:00 - 00:35:47:01
Michael David Davis
So Spirit's right.

00:35:47:11 - 00:36:08:00
Nicole Davis
But for so many years of our lives, that's our cycle, right? Is it? You push, push, push. Early in the morning, you go through the afternoon and then you're free. Right? And so, you know, you think about so many things that kind of make up your identity. A lot of those things are things that you experienced or were really passionate or involved in when you were a kid or in adolescence.

00:36:08:01 - 00:36:26:21
Nicole Davis
I think that there is part of that there. It was always really hard for me. You know, I started off as a classroom teacher and then I transitioned into the afterschool tutoring space. Man, I was used to two or 3:00 and then I was like, I can relax a little bit. But guess what? When you when you work with kids for tutoring, that's all after school.

00:36:26:21 - 00:36:43:11
Nicole Davis
So that's when your day really kicks into gear. When you've got to really be energized is when you're seeing those kids after school. So that was always a challenge for me. And I had to always do something physical right before the kids got there so that I could kind of get the blood pumping again and get excited. So they were excited about the work we were about to do.

00:36:43:11 - 00:36:47:16
Michael David Davis
And thank goodness for children because the energy that they would bring to the table right?

00:36:47:16 - 00:36:48:19
Nicole Davis
Like so.

00:36:48:19 - 00:36:56:20
Michael David Davis
Like, oh my gosh, so happy to see you. And you're like, Yes, yes. Like it was like being filled as that appreciation. They were appreciating you and you're just like, I.

00:36:56:20 - 00:37:02:02
Nicole Davis
Mean, look, it depends. Maybe some folks are not excited about doing more tutoring after school that, you know.

00:37:02:13 - 00:37:37:17
Michael David Davis
Yeah, I think I think that's really finding that space that works. Right. And and I think, again, we're going to continue to tie this into like leaders and things that are out there for employees. Again, give give employees in your team space to their to do this. In fact, this is like a stand up meeting or something like that, like a going with what Nicole was earlier but incorporate it into the meeting, like take a minute or 2 minutes in this meeting and have a stand up stretch if you're doing Zoom calls or if you're doing against some sort of video thing.

00:37:38:01 - 00:37:55:13
Michael David Davis
Hey, everyone, before we you got the agenda. So now those agendas, it's working, by the way. We're like, so on time, this is great. You know, get the people to understand like, we're going to take 2 minutes, stand up, breathe, do some silly shake out. Like, first of all, this is going to break any tension. This is going to be agony eyes.

00:37:55:13 - 00:38:22:07
Michael David Davis
This is just going to like you're all on it, even playing. So and I'm sorry if there's any executives out there that are saying, like, I'm not going to stand in a room with a bunch of, you know, mergers, acquisitions or finance people or just anybody that you feel is so important. I'm in a call phooey on you because you go out in golf like a lot of people are out there golfing and that's the way you're burning that energy and you're making these meetings happen in the career, so in the workspace environment, you can do the same thing and just be a little silly.

00:38:22:07 - 00:38:41:05
Nicole Davis
I 100% agree. And let me tell you, there have been so many times that I have either come directly from another meeting and I work from home. Right. Or a lot of the folks I work with are also working from home or working. And they'll come to meetings say, Oh, you know, so sorry, I just, you know, signed off for another meeting, etc..

00:38:41:12 - 00:39:02:01
Nicole Davis
Yes. We're not having it from, you know, board boardroom to boardroom or conference room to whatever space anymore. But it's still exhausting to do that mental switch of like, okay, I was talking about this for the last hour and I need to like, stop that. And think about what I'm going to do for this next hour. In this next meeting, I cannot tell you how many times I have said, Does anyone just need a bio break?

00:39:02:10 - 00:39:25:10
Nicole Davis
Does anyone need a wiggle? Does anyone just want to turn off their camera for 5 minutes and eat your lunch while I'm talking to you? Right. And every single time I have done that, I get this, you know, wave of appreciation because we don't do that. We don't give people the opportunity. And so, you know, no one has ever been like, oh, that's ridiculous.

00:39:25:14 - 00:39:32:08
Michael David Davis
You know, sneaky that they try to turn off their camera. Then you can hear, Oh, we didn't turn off your mike, Bob. I can hear you smacking on your.

00:39:32:13 - 00:39:36:00
Nicole Davis
But that's okay. Like humans, you're allowed to eat like.

00:39:36:03 - 00:39:37:13
Michael David Davis
You shouldn't have to be sneaky about.

00:39:37:14 - 00:39:44:03
Nicole Davis
You shouldn't have to be thinking about it. But when you give someone permission to turn off their cameras, you can eat like eat, eat your lunch with your people.

00:39:44:04 - 00:39:47:19
Michael David Davis
Sure, you're muting because there's some noises that should not be heard over Zoom.

00:39:47:23 - 00:39:48:14
Nicole Davis
Oh my God.

00:39:48:16 - 00:39:49:10
Michael David Davis
It happens.

00:39:49:20 - 00:39:52:11
Nicole Davis
I know, but I'm. You're missing my point.

00:39:52:11 - 00:39:53:07
Michael David Davis
I'll go for.

00:39:53:11 - 00:40:03:12
Nicole Davis
The point is, we are people. We are humans. You are allowed to eat and make whatever eating noises you need to make us take care of your body. And that will help you take care of your mind.

00:40:03:16 - 00:40:25:19
Michael David Davis
Dun dun. I was just on. You know, I'm not going to add as you got it. Enough nourishment. Just make sure that you're how it sounds. So hydrate because I think we get we forget about adding water because you're not doing the physical part of life sitting around like you still need to be hydrated. You still need to be your water and then have snacks throughout the day.

00:40:25:20 - 00:40:26:10
Michael David Davis
Yeah. Great.

00:40:26:14 - 00:40:26:22
Nicole Davis
Great.

00:40:27:05 - 00:40:36:15
Michael David Davis
Perfect. Can we now, why, if she had that type of energy and the ability to see that through.

00:40:36:18 - 00:40:38:08
Nicole Davis
What a different life I would live.

00:40:38:08 - 00:40:39:16
Michael David Davis
Oh, my gosh.

00:40:39:22 - 00:40:42:09
Nicole Davis
Can you imagine? Yeah, well, imagine.

00:40:42:22 - 00:40:48:03
Michael David Davis
If you said no. You. I mean, would you have said no.

00:40:48:03 - 00:40:50:05
Nicole Davis
Don't even send me in that spiral? I have.

00:40:50:05 - 00:40:51:11
Michael David Davis
Oh, my gosh.

00:40:51:11 - 00:40:52:19
Nicole Davis
I would have said, no.

00:40:53:02 - 00:40:53:19
Michael David Davis
Wait to me.

00:40:53:21 - 00:40:56:21
Nicole Davis
If if I felt like I needed to.

00:40:56:22 - 00:41:00:08
Michael David Davis
Oh, okay. Not like because you were you didn't say No.

00:41:00:09 - 00:41:03:11
Nicole Davis
I wasn't like, coerce. Oh, is that what you're asking me?

00:41:03:12 - 00:41:03:23
Michael David Davis
Yeah.

00:41:04:01 - 00:41:05:08
Nicole Davis
No, no, no, no.

00:41:05:08 - 00:41:07:22
Michael David Davis
Because I see how you get coerced and other things.

00:41:07:22 - 00:41:12:04
Nicole Davis
I know coercion feels a little strong, but.

00:41:12:04 - 00:41:14:02
Michael David Davis
Feels mischievous or bad.

00:41:14:02 - 00:41:22:19
Nicole Davis
Intent. Yeah, but, you know, I just. I'm tenderhearted. I'm. What else? What else?

00:41:22:20 - 00:41:23:14
Michael David Davis
Oh, my gosh.

00:41:23:14 - 00:41:25:14
Nicole Davis
I'm empathic, and you're.

00:41:25:14 - 00:41:58:04
Michael David Davis
And you really do you are you care so much about whom you work with and how they're involved? And you think about all the parties. And again, and many of us are like this, most people I feel like, do not have negative intentions towards you. Right. Or towards the person that they're saying something about. I think we have to remind ourselves that we are not, unfortunately, the star of the show all the time.

00:41:58:04 - 00:42:22:16
Michael David Davis
Right? We are not center stage. And so I get to take a little bit of this narcissism that I have. We all have it to a degree and remind myself that it's not about me. So that being said, when you are being told no, right, if you're asking for them and someone tells you no, it's okay, don't take it personal.

00:42:22:22 - 00:42:32:08
Michael David Davis
And now that's hard to say. And I'm sure you're going to tell me that saying to yourself to not take it personal is not mentally healthy, but what would you say?

00:42:32:09 - 00:42:48:05
Nicole Davis
So I think you bring that back around to what we were talking about earlier in asking questions, being an active listener and unpacking know, right. Yeah. This is actually not where I thought we were going with this conversation, but let's do it. Okay. So, you know, if you so I think we're going to talk about both sides of that.

00:42:48:05 - 00:43:06:05
Nicole Davis
Right. And like when you hear no how how to handle that and then how to say no. Yeah, yeah, I can hear no, I'm okay with that part. It's saying note to other people that I struggle with. But I think when you get to know, like rejection is hard, I don't think anyone rolls around in and is like, This feels great, right?

00:43:06:11 - 00:43:26:01
Nicole Davis
But it is understanding to help clear your own mind of all of those stories and all of those what if's, right? Or the why, the unknown, why Sometimes you're not going to get the answer and you got to like, deal with that. But when you do get to know, especially from someone that you have a relationship with, I think it's perfectly acceptable to try to unpack that.

00:43:26:07 - 00:43:43:13
Nicole Davis
So can you tell me a little bit more around what led up to that decision or what are the factors that you're thinking about or considering when you're passing on this proposal or whatever? And that can be with a client that you're trying to sell something to that can be, you know, requesting a raise or a promotion from your boss.

00:43:43:13 - 00:43:56:03
Nicole Davis
I can be looking to interview at any organization, but really getting to the bottom of that can help clear a lot of things out of your own mind. Instead of, like you said, you kind of making up the story when you don't actually know the whole story.

00:43:56:03 - 00:44:21:13
Michael David Davis
Yeah, yeah. And oh my gosh, that is so wonderful in the sense too, is that it's it's not just taking no for an answer, Right? We've all heard that. Yeah. Taking no for an answer and then finding out the solution for that. Yeah, it is. I think I forget that. Yeah. I forget when I Now I will tell you there are people that do like, know and that's salespeople because, like, you have a decision that's over, right?

00:44:21:13 - 00:44:25:04
Michael David Davis
You know, like, oh my gosh, I'm not in that indecisive zone anymore. Totally.

00:44:25:04 - 00:44:44:22
Nicole Davis
Yeah. Sometimes a no is just as, as a lot of times I know. It's just that thought is yes. Right. Because then I know because then it's like I don't have to keep like reaching out and pestering this person and all of that. I can focus my attention on the people who might still get to. Yes. Right. So I would also say, yeah, like if you have a sales person bugging you, like, don't feel guilty about telling them.

00:44:44:22 - 00:44:45:14
Michael David Davis
Now how them.

00:44:45:14 - 00:44:47:14
Nicole Davis
Because that will make their lives. Yes.

00:44:47:18 - 00:45:16:17
Michael David Davis
And strangely enough, when people come to the door, Nicole like will ask them questions and then like I had the I don't know, I had to be the mean guy. Like she she can do it so well. But yeah, all that being said, so going back to what you were talking about though, with the unpacking of it, I think what's really cool about the unpacking is that it's it is a skill set within yourself that when you start having that question your this will also help you remove some of that ambiguity that you have in your brain.

00:45:16:17 - 00:45:25:19
Michael David Davis
Why? The answer is no. You will actually probably find out it wasn't related to you. Yeah. And then you're going, Oh, wow. All right. That was that was great.

00:45:25:20 - 00:45:40:23
Nicole Davis
Yeah. Well, and look, then you know what to do with that information, right? When you don't know the answer, you can just spiral. Trust me, I live there a lot of times. Right? But when you know the answer, then you can either say, okay, that had nothing to do with me. And so I don't need to have that on my list of worries anymore.

00:45:41:07 - 00:45:49:23
Nicole Davis
Or it had everything to do with me. And it's something that's under my control and I can actually work on making that better for the next time this comes up. Yeah.

00:45:50:10 - 00:45:56:11
Michael David Davis
Okay. Nicole, how do you say no, though, to somebody else if they are saying, I need you to get this done Friday night?

00:45:56:11 - 00:46:18:10
Nicole Davis
Okay, so let's be real. It is rarely that that is really what happens for me. Yes. It's rarely that someone says I need you to do a B, C all the way through Z. Yeah, that's not what happens. I hear because I'm an empath, because, you know, responsibility as one of my top five strengths. We're talking about strengths finder.

00:46:19:15 - 00:46:38:23
Nicole Davis
To me, I want to step in and help other people. That's how I operate and if I feel like something is within my ability, I will say I can help with that. Let me look into it. I'll figure it out because I also am good at just figuring stuff out. You know, I'm a master Googler. I'm like a Google ninja, right?

00:46:38:23 - 00:46:41:17
Nicole Davis
I can find the answer and I can find a solution.

00:46:42:01 - 00:46:43:13
Michael David Davis
And you don't say no.

00:46:43:13 - 00:46:45:00
Nicole Davis
So they don't settle down?

00:46:45:01 - 00:46:46:14
Michael David Davis
No. So you unpack that and find those.

00:46:46:14 - 00:47:00:08
Nicole Davis
Yeah. So it's partially that I overcommit and over. Volunteer out of a sense of, you know, and supporting others. But I often do that to my own detriment.

00:47:00:11 - 00:47:05:15
Michael David Davis
Yeah. If I were to draw a caricature of Nicole and what you're saying it would be.

00:47:05:15 - 00:47:06:14
Nicole Davis
I'd have a great big head.

00:47:06:21 - 00:47:26:04
Michael David Davis
No, no, no. But you would have a big tray full of all these cakes. It makes me think of a children's program. Show it. I remember watching it. This was like the chef would come out with all these pastries and like, cakes. I was trying to make his way down the stairs and it would just you would see that the tray would teeter.

00:47:26:04 - 00:47:36:19
Nicole Davis
And he was like the cat in the hat with like the the goldfish on the head and like, Yeah, yeah. Balancing on the ball and the umbrella and yes, that is often what I feel like.

00:47:36:19 - 00:47:53:04
Michael David Davis
Yeah. So you're like spinning plates and all those things like we can metaphor. It is to the end of the world but like, okay, so I'm in, I'm not going to give you advice because I learned you have to ask for permission. So this is not unsolicited advice.

00:47:53:10 - 00:47:57:02
Nicole Davis
So it's are you open for are you open to feedback? That's the question.

00:47:57:02 - 00:48:00:04
Michael David Davis
Well, I'm just going to let our audience know, oh, it's not directed at.

00:48:00:09 - 00:48:01:17
Nicole Davis
You, but you could practice now.

00:48:01:17 - 00:48:02:04
Michael David Davis
Right? Okay.

00:48:02:05 - 00:48:04:16
Nicole Davis
And you can say, Audience, are you open if.

00:48:04:16 - 00:48:08:10
Michael David Davis
You are you open to feedback? Did you hear that? I heard something.

00:48:09:02 - 00:48:09:12
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:48:09:13 - 00:48:40:00
Michael David Davis
Okay. So I imagine in your world or in the world of somebody who is also just as much as willing to say yes, because again, I think we often overcome in ourselves because not we don't we do know that we can get it done. And we also feel like if we overcommit or that we are saying yes to a lot of things, that we are going to be seen as the person that gets things done, which then I'm going to be the first to be recognized for promotion because I was saying yes to everything or I was getting done.

00:48:40:12 - 00:49:14:10
Michael David Davis
But what happens? The majority of people, three out of five dentists, what have you cannot efficiently complete the things that you need to get done or worse. You are then removing all these things that we talk about with self care and you're putting yourself in such mental strain and such a very tizzy is not in any way a perfect word, but the anxiety that you have now created for yourself.

00:49:14:10 - 00:49:17:14
Michael David Davis
Because I feel like this is self created for a lot of people.

00:49:17:19 - 00:49:51:08
Nicole Davis
Yeah, well, and I think the other piece, so there is the internal piece of what you create within yourself when you're not able to set boundaries and say no to things. But there's also the precedent that you set within your peer group or with your supervisor or within your, your organization, that you will do anything. Yeah. And while there is value in the hustle and there is value in people seeing your hustle, you also walk the line of being devalued when you will just kind of do anything and step in and swoop in.

00:49:51:08 - 00:50:15:02
Nicole Davis
Especially, I would say when you swoop without acknowledging the swoop, right, Like when you step in and just kind of take care of something without making it known that you've done that, you're then also undermining yourself, because no one knows that there was a hole there that you were able to fill or that there was an issue that you were able to prevent becoming a problem because you just swooped in and did it.

00:50:15:04 - 00:50:32:07
Nicole Davis
Yeah. So, you know, there are a lot of those where it's not just about saying no or not being able to say no, but it's not always saying yes, I guess, or not always just stepping in. Yeah. In order to make things easier for everyone else.

00:50:32:09 - 00:50:52:12
Michael David Davis
So how do you say no? And I feel like the way to say no again has to come from your perspective. You have to assertively step up and just say, I am not able to do this. That's a start. But the person that's here now is probably going to say, Well, that's too bad. I want you to do it anyway.

00:50:53:02 - 00:51:13:10
Michael David Davis
Well, you need to be able to do is not only do you say no, you're not able to, but come to the table with suggestions and alternatives to what you can turn that into a yes with. So I'm not able to do this right now because of this moment. I have X, Y, and Z on my plate, but I will be finished with this by this time frame.

00:51:13:10 - 00:51:46:18
Michael David Davis
So at that point, if this is still a priority for you to get done, I will I will start that at that moment. So you're saying. Yes, but you're delaying that. Yes. And I think going to your point, Nicole, what you were saying is that if you create the not just the boundary, but you create that ability to say, I cannot do this right now, that that gap that yours normally might be saying yes to, that you're trying to fill as all of a sudden now might be recognized within by that person or that organization is your.

00:51:46:19 - 00:51:49:23
Michael David Davis
Oh, we notice now that there really is a missing.

00:51:50:06 - 00:51:50:15
Nicole Davis
Yeah.

00:51:50:15 - 00:52:03:10
Michael David Davis
Need here and we should probably find a way to get that feel. It's not by one person saying yes everything there's actually a different situation here. There's a deeper problem here.

00:52:03:13 - 00:52:27:15
Nicole Davis
Yeah well and I would also offer an alternative to that that yes, you can say I'll be able to get to that on X date. I think it's also saying, okay, so here are the things that I'm focused on right now based on our last conversation, are based on what the client has asked for, which these do you suggest I'd prioritize in order to insert this new item?

00:52:27:20 - 00:52:30:16
Michael David Davis
Yeah, that's strong. That is, that's really strong.

00:52:30:16 - 00:52:54:03
Nicole Davis
Because it creates a conversation, right. And it's not being dismissive. Yeah, it's not being dismissive. It's it's being thoughtful about the work that you have on your plate, but it's engaging that other person in a conversation and gives you insight into how they think about things. Right. Because you may have placed your own values and priorities on to a situation.

00:52:54:03 - 00:53:16:10
Nicole Davis
I literally had a conversation yesterday where the person I was speaking with said I had never thought about it like that. She had kind of dismissed, you know, a piece of this initiative that we were working on together. And I said, Well, if we think about scale, which is what we've we've all set as a priority, this is actually a really important piece.

00:53:16:23 - 00:53:36:02
Nicole Davis
And because, you know, this is a person who is just like, she's working very closely with me to kind of get things done on this list. It took her a second to zoom back out and go, Oh my gosh, you're right. This is really a big part of the strategy. So I think, you know, stopping people and having the conversation is powerful.

00:53:36:02 - 00:53:47:08
Nicole Davis
It's not always pushing back, but it's inviting that person to give you insight and a better understanding of how you should be looking at it as well.

00:53:47:21 - 00:54:04:04
Michael David Davis
And look, before we wrap this up, let's be honest with ourselves like this is not easy, right? It also has to be a two way street. You have been in this role or you've been doing something your entire life and you've always been the yes person that you walk in on Monday. You're now feeling motivated. You're doing all these things.

00:54:04:04 - 00:54:13:23
Michael David Davis
You've been doing a little bit of exercising at your desk and now you're like, pumped up, you ready to go? And you're like, Hey, I'm not capable of doing this right now, right?

00:54:14:00 - 00:54:15:04
Nicole Davis
It's like, you will.

00:54:15:04 - 00:54:32:02
Michael David Davis
Probably get some pushback or some weird looks on your face. But remember that is okay. And you can if you want to blame us, you can say, I listen to my thought partner. And they gave me the ability to feel like I can come talk to you and say, Hey, this is an issue. Then let them listen to the podcast and maybe they'll get it to you.

00:54:32:05 - 00:54:58:02
Michael David Davis
Like ultimately, just remember that change is good, right? And change is not easy, but it's the repetition of doing it and setting that expectation consistently is where you will find the ability to become more at ease with self, right? And you'll become more peaceful. And again, check it out and wrap it up.

00:54:58:20 - 00:54:59:22
Nicole Davis
And I wanted to say something.

00:54:59:22 - 00:55:02:00
Michael David Davis
Oh, go for it. Do it. Yeah. Somebody say.

00:55:02:04 - 00:55:16:08
Nicole Davis
Okay, So the only thing I want to say is that this is kind of going back to what we said in the time blocking conversation around. Don't don't feel you have to do it all. Don't feel like you have to take on all of these things and implement them all at once because you won't do it. Well, all right.

00:55:16:08 - 00:55:39:09
Nicole Davis
Like change is hard. And so, you know, if you're going to try trying to set some better boundaries or trying to start incorporating more movement or whatever these things are for your own personal self-care, do one little thing at a time. You know, for me personally, I overcommit all the time. I overcommit and I am a pleaser in all aspects of my life that doesn't start and stop at work.

00:55:39:16 - 00:56:00:06
Nicole Davis
So I say yes to many projects at work. I say yes to many things in my personal life, in my volunteer roles, right? It's just how I'm built. So for me to walk in on Monday and say, No, not doing it is like not going to happen. It is also not going to make me feel good about what I'm doing and it doesn't make me feel true to who I am.

00:56:00:06 - 00:56:15:19
Nicole Davis
So I think just if that's helpful at all, I just wanted to share that little piece of it that, you know, be aware of who you are in yourself and try to take some of these tips a little bit at a time to incorporate into your life.

00:56:16:15 - 00:56:33:20
Michael David Davis
Excellent. Well said. We'll catch it next week. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are.

00:56:33:20 - 00:56:35:00
Nicole Davis
We are.

00:56:36:09 - 00:56:41:17
Michael David Davis
The youth of a generation. Oh, not it wasn't there. Youth of a nation.

00:56:41:17 - 00:56:42:16
Nicole Davis
Yeah. Oh.

00:56:43:04 - 00:56:46:22
Michael David Davis
Dang it. Oh, what is.

00:56:46:22 - 00:56:48:06
Nicole Davis
It was quite a noise.

00:56:48:14 - 00:56:54:13
Michael David Davis
It should be. It's loud. It was like a clapper, but with my hand, which I. I guess it is a clapper.